Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

You clearly don't appreciate Kurosawa's genius and therefore you're not allowed to play the game, Gaijin.


Kagemusha is his best one clearly you know nothing of the jidaigeki genre. Probably over here thinking Rashomon is his best! Hah!
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by DruSM157
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...I actually really enjoy Hidden Fortress D:
Hidden 4 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by mickilennial
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Of the twenty-one Kurosawa films I’ve seen, I’d say Sanjuro, Rashomon, Ran, and the Hidden Fortress are certainly some of his finest films. Sometimes I oft neglect films like Kagemusha, Ikiru, and Red Beard but I think they are nearly perfect as well.
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Easily the most impressive thing about Ghost of Tsushima are the load times.
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Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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I fell like saying that this game is better than any AC game I've played isn't really a very high bar, so I'll keep playing until I can think of some real praise.
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Of the twenty-one Kurosawa films I’ve seen, I’d say Sanjuro, Rashomon, Ran, and the Hidden Fortress are certainly some of his finest films. Sometimes I oft neglect films like Kagemusha, Ikiru, and Red Beard but I think they are nearly perfect as well.


Damn, Ink, you must enjoy my films.

Hidden 4 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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I fell like saying that this game is better than any AC game I've played isn't really a very high bar, so I'll keep playing until I can think of some real praise.


Structurally the only difference between it and current AC games is that Tsushima doesn't have a compass on screen pointing out quests at all times. It even has the AC thing of 'tail the enemy sneakily by being on the roof tops' thing that everyone hated like six AC games ago!

If you play the game like I do, as in 'gotta do everything else before tackling the story missions' then the lack of variety in enemy types and activities is doing a constant battle with my like of getting blood on my sick white dyed tier three armors. That's more a personal problem but also if someone hasn't used the tagline 'stylish over substance' then maybe games journalism has hope even if it is an accurate summary of the game's systems.

There's only so many times that a triple kill standoff with random enemies is something I want to do but fortunately I haven't hit that unknown amount of times yet.
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<Snipped quote by Dolerman>

Structurally the only difference between it and current AC games is that Tsushima doesn't have a compass on screen pointing out quests at all times. It even has the AC thing of 'tail the enemy sneakily by being on the roof tops' thing that everyone hated like six AC games ago!

If you play the game like I do, as in 'gotta do everything else before tackling the story missions' then the lack of variety in enemy types and activities is doing a constant battle with my like of getting blood on my sick white dyed tier three armors. That's more a personal problem but also if someone hasn't used the tagline 'stylish over substance' then maybe games journalism has hope even if it is an accurate summary of the game's systems.

There's only so many times that a triple kill standoff with random enemies is something I want to do but fortunately I haven't hit that unknown amount of times yet.


The combat is miles better than any AC game. Which again isn't a high bar considering only 3 of them don't have the auto-kill counter mechanic you have by default. Now to be fair I'm playing it on hard and I've died around 30 times because I got complacent with my timing and distance, for comparison, I've only ever died on an AC game when I misjudged a jump due to shitty level design and fell off the tall side of a building.

Skill tree is better, story is un-convoluted, I haven't met an unlikeable character yet, customization is rewarding.

The game's problems are the baby's first stealth mechanics and the weird cadence of some of the conversations, other than that, the game is solid.

And I've been stalking MFs on rooftops since Tenchu, AC didn't invent that.
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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Which again isn't a high bar considering only 3 of them don't have the auto-kill counter mechanic you have by default.


No, instead it has an auto-kill perfect parry mechanic. The combat in newer AC games is better if only because there are more options in any given encounter because of weapon variety. The combat in Tsushima boils down to "pick the stance and stagger them but also if you don't pick the stance it's fine they aren't that difficult oh also use your lightning stab ability if you're feeling particularly spicy." And yeah, I'm playing on hard too and I've died more times because the game doesn't communicate which jumps are actually survivable with the thief roll than I have to enemies.

This doesn't mean I think the combat is bad just that it hasn't been particularly rewarding and if I've unlocked like 80 percent of the skills and I'm still on act one then I can't possibly imagine act two or three will fundamentally change the combat encounters in a way other than giving the enemies a larger health bar.

Skill tree is better, story is un-convoluted, I haven't met an unlikeable character yet, customization is rewarding.


Skill tree is debateable. I've not really found myself caring when I get an unlock now that I've got max chain assassinations, stealth hearing, and all the deflection abilities I care about. Customization is pretty barebones. Yeah it's cool that my armor is dyed white but functionally I'm spending 90 percent of the game in the traveler's attire because of its map clearing and collectible pinging. The headbands are cosmetic as are the face masks and the charms don't really alter anything to make them anything more than 'equip and forget'. At least in AC you can wear legendary gear but then make it look like whatever gear you've collected which is the kind of customization I generally prefer.

Story is un-convoluted but also uninteresting. On the contrary I haven't met a memorable character and the game falls super hard into the open world trope of "Hey I'd like to help you but solve my problems first". The side missions don't really feel like they add anything other than EXP points because changing your legend doesn't make people respond to you any differently, it's just a way to unlock a ghost weapon. Am I asking too much? Probably. But if we're going to keep the AC comparisons then at least the side activities in Odyssey contributed to the ongoing war and you could influence which side was favored. Clearing Mongol posts doesn't appear to have less Mongols over the place so it feels less like I'm liberating the island and more like I'm checking off a list.

The game's problems are the baby's first stealth mechanics and the weird cadence of some of the conversations, other than that, the game is solid.


Well, there are more problems with the game but if I go on it'll start sounding like I hate the game when I don't.
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No, instead it has an auto-kill perfect parry mechanic. The combat in newer AC games is better if only because there are more options in any given encounter because of weapon variety. The combat in Tsushima boils down to "pick the stance and stagger them but also if you don't pick the stance it's fine they aren't that difficult oh also use your lightning stab ability if you're feeling particularly spicy." And yeah, I'm playing on hard too and I've died more times because the game doesn't communicate which jumps are actually survivable with the thief roll than I have to enemies.


The window on perfect parries is a 10x tighter in ghost than the couter kills in something like black flag, which gives you the ability to counter kill anything instantly, and being in the right stance doesn't guarantee anything when you're surrounded by multiple enemy types, or even when you're against the same type. If I fuck up my positioning or time my attack string badly, the stagger combo isn't auto killing anything. Now the new-ish combat style of origins and oddessy has the arcade double speed dark souls which ditches the counter kill crap but also makes enemies like wonky damage sponge terminators. It's not fluid.

Even if I pick the wind stance against 4 spear enemies, I can still be turned into swiss cheese if I pick my attack approach wrong, despite all of my combat abilites, something can always go wrong. It also incorporates the principles of Sen, Go No Sen, and sen no sen (albiet lightly) by giving you options to deal with attacks outside of parries, like disrupting their own 'wind up' with a well placed attack of your own.

The combat in ghost isn't perfectly rewarding but combat in anything but a pirate ship in AC has never been rewarding (and even then it wears bloody thin, real quick).

Skill tree is debateable. I've not really found myself caring when I get an unlock now that I've got max chain assassinations, stealth hearing, and all the deflection abilities I care about. Customization is pretty barebones. Yeah it's cool that my armor is dyed white but functionally I'm spending 90 percent of the game in the traveler's attire because of its map clearing and collectible pinging. The headbands are cosmetic as are the face masks and the charms don't really alter anything to make them anything more than 'equip and forget'. At least in AC you can wear legendary gear but then make it look like whatever gear you've collected which is the kind of customization I generally prefer.

Story is un-convoluted but also uninteresting. On the contrary I haven't met a memorable character and the game falls super hard into the open world trope of "Hey I'd like to help you but solve my problems first". The side missions don't really feel like they add anything other than EXP points because changing your legend doesn't make people respond to you any differently, it's just a way to unlock a ghost weapon. Am I asking too much? Probably. But if we're going to keep the AC comparisons then at least the side activities in Odyssey contributed to the ongoing war and you could influence which side was favored. Clearing Mongol posts doesn't appear to have less Mongols over the place so it feels less like I'm liberating the island and more like I'm checking off a list.

<Snipped quote>

Well, there are more problems with the game but if I go on it'll start sounding like I hate the game when I don't.


The skill tree has the advantage of having skills I actually end up using and want to use instead of just bells and whistles which technically make me more of a badass but feel hollow or impractical. I'm with you on the charms, but I ditched the traveller's attire as soon as possible. I'm unlocking the map fast enough by just chasing foxes and birds in my armor and I'm in no rush to do any of that faster. The customization works on an aesthetic level, It looks nice enough for me to want ride over to a flower out of my way so I can get my scabbard to match my headband. It's just the right amount of incentive for a cosmetic upgrade.

I'm not going to sit here and defend the story, it's a pretty stand stoic revenge/liberation tale. What I like about it is that it doesn't break my immersion of being a wandering ronin. Jin's character is just flat enough for me to be able to project my own goals of becoming more powerful without me getting bored or pissed off when he opens his mouth, when compared to a lot of other open world games including AC, this is a godsend.

I really like how everyone in the game is pretty no-nonsense but still manage to feel distinct from each other, the game wont win any TLOU2 type awards for the acting. But I never feel the urge to skip a cutscene, when Lady Masako told me about the slaughter of her family after seeing the bloodstained tatami and broken naginatas in her estate, I gave a shit. Which is something an AC game has probably made me do twice over the span of a dozen games. And I never feel like there should be less mongols after clearing outsposts because this isn't far cry. It's literally the mongol empire they are the in-universe example of the endless horde. If anything I'm surprised there aren't more of them crawling about, they probably have a metric fuck ton of ships posted in every sea surrounding the island.

Oddessey's story might make you feel more in tune with greater conflict but when you get to know the people in your island are ubisoft-usubtle wink-and-nod swingers who want to have pansexual orgies with you, it's hard for me to take my role in the fight for these people very seriously. Seeing Jin's bare ass when he gets into the hot springs is about all the fanservice I need for a game like this.

So yeah the game is on the better end, of open word stuff. It's somewhere between Breath of the Wild and Mad Max in terms of quality. enjoyable, but I'm not going to defend it with my life as if Abby was in it or something..

Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

The window on perfect parries is a 10x tighter in ghost than the couter kills in something like black flag, which gives you the ability to counter kill anything instantly, and being in the right stance doesn't guarantee anything when you're surrounded by multiple enemy types, or even when you're against the same type. If I fuck up my positioning or time my attack string badly, the stagger combo isn't auto killing anything. Now the new-ish combat style of origins and oddessy has the arcade double speed dark souls which ditches the counter kill crap but also makes enemies like wonky damage sponge terminators. It's not fluid.


I don't know what game you're playing but even with just a rank 4 katana all I have to do is swap to the right stance, hit triangle one or two times to stagger, and then they're dead. That's even before I think to just throw a sticky bomb or do the legendary attack that pretty much staggers immediately. It's beyond simple and call it fluid if you like but there's little in the way of variety unless I actively choose to play inefficiently because while perfect parries might have a tight window (I've seen tighter), regular parries do not and at this point the only thing I can't parry are bears. Every tool at your disposal is less about making the combat fluid and interesting and engaging and more about finding ways to kill enemies that much quicker. You don't have to keep dragging another game through the mud to make this one stand up.

Even if I pick the wind stance against 4 spear enemies, I can still be turned into swiss cheese if I pick my attack approach wrong, despite all of my combat abilites, something can always go wrong. It also incorporates the principles of Sen, Go No Sen, and sen no sen (albiet lightly) by giving you options to deal with attacks outside of parries, like disrupting their own 'wind up' with a well placed attack of your own.


Or if you're up against four spear enemies you just hit circle a bunch, throw a sticky or smoke bomb, assassinate, wind style, dead spears. It's not some tactical combat game where you have to think of your approach before every encounter even if the story missions would have you believe it is. The stealth mechanics are really lacking to the point where the preferred option is to just do a challenge and thin the heard every time. Every enemy telegraphs their attack so far in advance that you'd think they were trained that way. Archers still shout their attacks even when everyone else is dead because otherwise it might be unfair or dishonorable or something. The game is so slavishly devoted to its style that it's an active detriment to the overall combat experience with how many times a fucking tree or bamboo shoot has gotten in the way of the camera.

The combat in ghost isn't perfectly rewarding but combat in anything but a pirate ship in AC has never been rewarding (and even then it wears bloody thin, real quick).


Look, dude, I get that you don't like AC but if Tsushima can't stand on its own without having to drag another franchise then is it really standing on its own. Combat is more fun in Odyssey if for no other reason than it having more options in terms of loadout, ability, and approach. If you want to talk about wearing thin then Tsushima shouldn't throw those stones in the glass house it built.

The skill tree has the advantage of having skills I actually end up using and want to use instead of just bells and whistles which technically make me more of a badass but feel hollow or impractical.


Like every skill in Tsushima has an equal or better equivalent in Odyssey down to both games having a goddamn kick that launches dudes and a shoulder tackle and a heal that takes a full resource pip. Not every skill is just 'number go up now'. Stuff like the 'slow time while aiming' or 'shoot three projectiles at once' are far from hollow or impractical. You have more freedom to tailor your playstyle and approach in Odyssey because of the loadouts and abilities and that, in turn, makes for a more versatile system. It's not deep but it's something.

I'm with you on the charms, but I ditched the traveller's attire as soon as possible. I'm unlocking the map fast enough by just chasing foxes and birds in my armor and I'm in no rush to do any of that faster. The customization works on an aesthetic level, It looks nice enough for me to want ride over to a flower out of my way so I can get my scabbard to match my headband. It's just the right amount of incentive for a cosmetic upgrade.


I'd prefer it if I could pick and choose the bonuses the armor gives so I could wear the one that looks the best in white while maintaining the abilities that are more geared to how I'd like to play the game. I'm never going to use the samurai clan armor or the Tadayori armor but I sure wouldn't mind the option to slap the concentration boost on the cooler outfit I am wearing. Sure, it's not practical, but I settled into my look already - white dye, headband of death, no face mask, white sword set - that the only reason I'd get flowers is because there's a trophy to buy vanity gear. And if I didn't have to pull up the menu to swap between the two I use then it'd be a lot cooler and I'd be more inclined to at least use other sets. But I'm basically locked into the traveler's attire because, again, the ping for collectibles and the wider fog clear and if I forget to switch to the outfit I actually like then the only thing I lose is style because the bonuses aren't substantial enough to matter outside of, like, the concentration one.

I'm not going to sit here and defend the story, it's a pretty stand stoic revenge/liberation tale. What I like about it is that it doesn't break my immersion of being a wandering ronin. Jin's character is just flat enough for me to be able to project my own goals of becoming more powerful without me getting bored or pissed off when he opens his mouth, when compared to a lot of other open world games including AC, this is a godsend.


Meanwhile I'm struggling to give a shit because this is another game where the protagonist gets hung up over breaking his code or doing something he doesn't like for all of a cutscene then has no problem doing it for hours on end. At least it's amusing to cut open doors instead of opening them. Jin is the least interesting character in his own story and it's hard to project my goals onto him, personally, because my goal isn't to get more powerful it's to see what's that undiscovered location oh it's just another fucking fox den or a fucking pointless haiku good thing my uncle isn't in jeopardy or anything.

I really like how everyone in the game is pretty no-nonsense but still manage to feel distinct from each other, the game wont win any TLOU2 type awards for the acting. But I never feel the urge to skip a cutscene, when Lady Masako told me about the slaughter of her family after seeing the bloodstained tatami and broken naginatas in her estate, I gave a shit. Which is something an AC game has probably made me do twice over the span of a dozen games.


Yeah cool and in Odyssey going back to my home island only to find that my sparing of sick people now means a plague has ransacked the island hit made me both give a shit and realize that there might actually be consequences, minor or otherwise, to decisions but again, that doesn't make AC worse or Tsushima better because people respond to things differently. The only story thread that has made me want to see it played out is the archer and his protege and even that's like half because it's the Dharma dude from Lost and he's cool.

And I never feel like there should be less mongols after clearing outsposts because this isn't far cry. It's literally the mongol empire they are the in-universe example of the endless horde. If anything I'm surprised there aren't more of them crawling about, they probably have a metric fuck ton of ships posted in every sea surrounding the island.


But when the objective is literally measured in how much of the island you have 'liberated' it rings a bit hollow when you liberate a bunch of shit and the only change is now there's burned grass. Clearing outposts in Far Cry 2 just meant eventually outposts were repopulated but your goal in that wasn't to liberate the country. If I'm supposed to be liberating Tsushima, then I would think I would start seeing less Mongols and more bandits to at least make it seem like I'm actually, you know, liberating and pushing back the invasion.

Oddessey's story might make you feel more in tune with greater conflict but when you get to know the people in your island are ubisoft-usubtle wink-and-nod swingers who want to have pansexual orgies with you, it's hard for me to take my role in the fight for these people very seriously. Seeing Jin's bare ass when he gets into the hot springs is about all the fanservice I need for a game like this.


Sorry that Greek people liked to fuck I guess? Like there aren't even that many people you can fuck in Odyssey and your role in that game isn't to end the war or liberate Greece you're a mercenary and your ultimate goal is unraveling a conspiracy while there's a war in the background.

So yeah the game is on the better end, of open word stuff. It's somewhere between Breath of the Wild and Mad Max in terms of quality.


Shit no wonder I'm coming down hard on it then

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Look, dude, I get that you don't like AC but if Tsushima can't stand on its own without having to drag another franchise then is it really standing on its own.


Shit, dude. did you get an internship at ubisoft this summer? I'm talking about ghost in relation to AC because that was literally how I started the discussion. On it's own merits it's just fine. Compared to AC games in general it's refreshing. Oddessy just wasn't that good, very few AC or Ubisoft games are. But I see this is series you're invested in so I won't do this dance. Hopefully you'll pull a RDR2 or God Of War (2018) and just end up changing your mind about the game completely, rendering this whole discussion kind of moot.
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*When you've only played Syndicate.* ._.
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*When you've only played Syndicate.* ._.


Is that the one with the top hats?
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Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Dolerman
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@Majoras End

I think I skipped that one, or the silly accents made me put it down early, idk.
Hidden 4 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

Shit, dude. did you get an internship at ubisoft this summer? I'm talking about ghost in relation to AC because that was literally how I started the discussion. On it's own merits it's just fine. Compared to AC games in general it's refreshing. Oddessy just wasn't that good, very few AC or Ubisoft games are. But I see this is series you're invested in so I won't do this dance. Hopefully you'll pull a RDR2 or God Of War (2018) and just end up changing your mind about the game completely, rendering this whole discussion kind of moot.


But it's not refreshing. It's also-ran. It's just got a unique coat of paint. That doesn't make it bad, it just makes it a remix of a song that some people like more than the original. You're out here acting like I hate the game because I think it's like a 3/5 as opposed to a 4/5. Odyssey is better than it but outside of them both having open world trappings and stealth, one is an RPG and the other isn't and the systems therein differentiate them. If Tsushima didn't have the technical/lighting aspect then it would be an actively worse game but it does and that helps cover for the rest of it - like covering a crack in the wall with a nice painting.

And for the record, I think God of War 2018 is a bad action game and I only 'changed my mind' about RDR2 because I played more of it and the issues became impossible to ignore - congrats to you for disliking it first I guess, your medal got lost in the mail though, shipping is a motherfucker. I'm likely not about to change my mind on Tsushima because right now my mind is at "This is a serviceable game that I probably won't really think about once I put it down". Why do you act like someone changing their opinion on something when presented with a fuller picture is bad?
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But it's not refreshing. It's also-ran. It's just got a unique coat of paint. That doesn't make it bad, it just makes it a remix of a song that some people like more than the original. You're out here acting like I hate the game because I think it's like a 3/5 as opposed to a 4/5.


I think Ghost is 3 (maybe a 3.5) out of 5 as well though. You're acting as if I see this game as the physical embodiment of Abby come to life. I just don't think Oddessy is a 4 out of 5 game, and I'm certain that outside of the 4 people who even know this thread exists i'm not the only one who thinks that. Oddessy's combat is the polished version of the AC game that attempted dark souls combat with a crappy arcade makeover, which fits your crack and painting analogy much better. Also, I never said you hated anything, stop injecting charged language where it isn't needed, bruh.

And for the record, I think God of War 2018 is a bad action game and I only 'changed my mind' about RDR2 because I played more of it and the issues became impossible to ignore - congrats to you for disliking it first I guess, your medal got lost in the mail though, shipping is a motherfucker. I'm likely not about to change my mind on Tsushima because right now my mind is at "This is a serviceable game that I probably won't really think about once I put it down". Why do you act like someone changing their opinion on something when presented with a fuller picture is bad?


You called God Of War a 3/5 so does that mean 'bad' or does it mean 'servicable'?

And RDR2 only sticks out because it was a game where I laid out all of the issues with the game as clearly as I could only for you to toss them aside as if it was the irrelevant ramblings of a homeless guy trying to sell you pencils from a cup. You can't blame me for feeling a little eye-rolly when most of the issues you pointed out were the exact ones I was trying to articulate. But no I don't think that makes you a 'bad' person or changing minds is bad, it's a video game for christ sake.
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I think Ghost is 3 (maybe a 3.5) out of 5 as well though.


Then why are we still reliving the glory days of our youths with this back and forth.

You called God Of War a 3/5 so does that mean 'bad' or does it mean 'servicable'?


God of War is a bad action game but there's enough outside of that to make it a 3/5.

And RDR2 only sticks out because it was a game where I laid out all of the issues with the game as clearly as I could only for you to toss them aside as if it was the irrelevant ramblings of a homeless guy trying to sell you pencils from a cup. You can't blame me for feeling a little eye-rolly when most of the issues you pointed out were the exact ones I was trying to articulate.


And I admitted that I was hasty in my thoughts but I stand by everything I said at the time and equally so what I said when I played more of it.
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Then why are we still reliving the glory days of our youths with this back and forth.


Because you are angling for a job at Ubisoft's PR team. And I'm still plenty young, auntie.

God of War is a bad action game but there's enough outside of that to make it a 3/5.


I suppose if it wasn't 4th game in a row glorifying the 'troubled dad' trope that seemed to dominate media of the 2010s, I'd think it was less shit...but still probably not good.

And I admitted that I was hasty in my thoughts but I stand by everything I said at the time and equally so what I said when I played more of it.


I don't think you used the word 'admit' or 'hasty' but I wont dispute the sentiment. Mainly because I just realised that yoshi's island has been on the switch virtual console for a while now and I haven't touched it.
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