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Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Ace of Hearts
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imagine how white you have to be to think that nazi ideology and those who believe in it should be protected
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by mdk
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<Snipped quote by mdk>

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, just wondering, but why is it better for our economy if North Korea keeps it's current power structure?


If the DPRK collapses, there's a giant minefield to the south -- largest in the world. The starving refugees with no skills to offer are going to flood China, which is already facing a dire food and water crisis in the next decade due to the size of its population and the desertification of its land. But they'll go there anyway because they've got nowhere else to go, and China's the closest thing they've had to an ally for half a century. That's gonna be a huuuuuuuge problem, even if all they ever do is eat -- but it's a brainwashed and militarized populace, there's a pretty decent chance they'll do worse than eat. We like to think of China as a big boogeyman superpower but they will straight-up collapse under the weight of a North Korean refugee crisis, and that's just the first domino.

Kim's doing us all a HUGE favor by keeping these people horrifically repressed enough that they can't crash the global economy by flooding China. It sucks, and I hate it, and I'm not saying that to excuse the monster running that deathcamp of a nation -- I'm just saying, if he goes down overnight, it's going to be BAAAAAAD. VERY bad. We need a way to ease them out of it, and we'll never make that happen by toppling the god-emperor in a war. Still, we can't let them have nukes -- that opens up a door to the only thing worse than DPRK losing a regional war.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by mdk
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imagine how white you have to be to think that nazi ideology and those who believe in it should be protected


I think that all sorts of lunatics who believe in all kinds of crazy bullshit should be protected.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Ace of Hearts
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<Snipped quote by Ace of Hearts>

I think that all sorts of lunatics who believe in all kinds of crazy bullshit should be protected.


well, on behalf of everyone, thank you for advocating for rights of nazis.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by mdk
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<Snipped quote by mdk>

well, on behalf of everyone, thank you for advocating for rights of nazis.


YW.
Hidden 1 mo ago 1 mo ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Don't you think a hug is in store here.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Didgeridont
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<Snipped quote by mdk>

well, on behalf of everyone, thank you for advocating for rights of nazis.


Damn, it's almost as if we live in a place where freedom of speech is protected and people aren't meant to be killed or harassed for disagreeing with others.

Hmmmmm, really makes ya' think . . .
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Ace of Hearts
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>thinking being a neo-nazi/white supremacist is the same as simply disagreeing with someone
>also thinking that neo-nazi ideology/white supremacy has any validity that entitles it to protection

how fucking stupid are you.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Didgeridont
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>thinking being a neo-nazi/white supremacist is the same as simply disagreeing with someone
>also thinking that neo-nazi ideology/white supremacy has any validity that entitles it to protection

how fucking stupid are you.


Hmmmmm, it's almost as if all opinions should be protected under the 1st Amendment to stave off against people putting all opinions of a certain quality under an umbrella definition as is currently seen today . . .

Hmmmmmmmm, it's like if designating opinions as valid or invalid based solely on their association with groups is arbitrary and only leads to the creation of echo chambers and the shut down of any discussion . . .

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, it's just like how certain classes of people were persecuted for their opinions and ideologies in governments like the ones under Stalin, Hitler, and Mao and our society believes that the benefits of free speech outweigh the potential side effects . . .

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm really makes you think, eh?
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by POOHEAD189
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I'm confused. Who here advocated white supremacy?
Hidden 1 mo ago 1 mo ago Post by Ace of Hearts
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Why do I, or anyone, have to discuss anything with nazis? What the fuck is with you self-fellating libertarians and debate? Why should I have to tell you that being a nazi is wrong, in all cases? I mean, you might have some great big intellectual boner for being so woke and logical that you can even see the value in being/allowing people a nazi, or a white supremacist, but I don't.

because I'm not a raging piece of shit

pee your pants please
Hidden 1 mo ago 1 mo ago Post by Nytem4re
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How would one even prevent someone from being a nazi? You'd have to breach every several individual rights in the constitution and do something akin to the internment camps of the 40s.

The entire point is- No, most people don't think it's okay to be a nazi. But the point of rights are to protect everyone, not just those you deem "worthy" of having rights. At that point it becomes a privilege and not a right at all.

I mean, it was only a few decades ago that advocating for gay marriage was seen as "evil" and "sinful". If we banned nazi speech/thought it would have obviously extended to LGBT activists and civil rights activists. Because what's "right" at the time might be subjective.

Anyways, it just opens up a lot of chances for abuse if we did attempt to force people not to be nazis. Who's rights are safe then? For all we know the government could just shut the lid on anyone criticizing them, claiming that they were shitty people who can't see the benefit of the government being all powerful.

It also brings up the other question on who even decides how much far-right philosophy/thought gets you in trouble. Are we banning just blantant nazis, or any far-right leaning person who may have facist ideals?

And I mean, if you didn't want to debate this why even post an obvious flame bait reaction like "how fucking stupid are you"

Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Didgeridont
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Why do I, or anyone, have to discuss anything with nazis? What the fuck is with you self-fellating libertarians and debate? Why should I have to tell you that being a nazi is wrong, in all cases? I mean, you might have some great big intellectual boner for being so woke and logical that you can even see the value in being/allowing people a nazi, or a white supremacist, but I don't.

because I'm not a raging piece of shit

pee your pants please


Hmmmmmm, maybe people view it as immoral for you to silence their avenues of communication simply because you disagree with them . . .

Hmmmmmmmmm, maybe people don't like it when others impose a worldview onto them rather than having to figure out the world by themselves . . .

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe people can naturally glean that some opinions are incompatible with the world they want to achieve but can still find common ground and work out differences through actual conversation.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe people don't like being told what to think, regardless of how "good" or "right" some authority figure espouses themselves to be . . .

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm make one really think . . .
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by mdk
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>thinking being a neo-nazi/white supremacist is the same as simply disagreeing with someone
>also thinking that neo-nazi ideology/white supremacy has any validity that entitles it to protection


Rights are not subject to your judgment of the subject's "validity." If it were otherwise, they would not be rights.
Hidden 1 mo ago 1 mo ago Post by POOHEAD189
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I think it's safe to say that anyone who's purpose is to trample the rights of others is in the wrong, because of your argument.
the point of rights are to protect everyone, not just those you deem "worthy" of having rights. At that point it becomes a privilege and not a right at all.

Which makes Nazi idealogy inherently wrong. However...I agree with you. As long as their dreams/goals of trampling rights do not come to fruition, we have no right to take away their right of free speech, even if it's hateful. At least on a government level. If an individual is being affronted, we can't tell you what to do. But we can't make laws against it.

@Ace of HeartsAlso, people who follow the Nazi idealogy are in the wrong and I think we can all agree. But they are, essentially, people. Ignorant people who let hate control them, but people nonetheless. Talking to them and convincing them of being wrong should be paramount, rather than simply exterminating them or their rights. That would be a last resort.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Penny
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Hidden 1 mo ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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If you are going to argue that the actual modern incarnation of Nazism should be removed from free speech, you likewise can say goodbye to the "democratic socialist" movement, the anarchist movement, the Communist movement, the X movement, Y movement, et cetera, et cetera and so on. Name any movement that is shaded any color of "bad", which is to say all of them, then attempt to pick and choose who violates what and why others are exempt. The short of this is that such a philosophy does not work, not at all in fact, and unquestionably by its very nature is contrarian to American belief. The Nazi ideology is incompatible with what the United States stands for - the same could be said for communism, of which has done as many and if not outright more horrific things. They are both masses of terrible ideologies, but until their words become actions, they are more or less exercising their free speech.

If you start picking apart free speech and choosing what you disagree or agree with and outlawing whatever does not fit your personal brand of alignment then no longer is it free speech. This is part of the reason people so disdain the "free speech is hate speech" argument; there is no such thing as "hate speech" because it is exclusively subject to opinion. There are an innumerable amount of examples that further prove there is no semblance of balance.

"Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon." or "What do we want? (Dead cops.) When do we want them? (Now!)"

Absolutely reprehensible and disgraceful... still free speech.

You cannot have both.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by Andreyich
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Fringe ideologies are bad but the fringe of my side is slightly less bad :DDD
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by BingTheWing
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Is it possible to be purely centrist? It's either that, or I'm just really undecided.
Hidden 1 mo ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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@BingTheWing

Every person of the center has leanings one way or the other. We have, here in this topic, both a left-leaning Centrist and a right-leaning Centrist. The only way to know which way you lean is to undergo a process of review using any number of the political tests out there. In some aspect, you will find that you are either more Authoritarian or Liberal and Right or Left wing, even if only slightly by a few degrees. Taking multiple different tests will average it out as well, but should include taking the tests on different days and mindsets; the data will not be terribly skewed if you do not do this, although I note it is the most honest means of doing so.
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