[OOC] Myriad Reality

[Host]

@Whizzball1

english.stackexchange.com/questions/1…

WHIZ IS THIS YOU

[Mammalia]

@Whizzball1

english.stackexchange.com/questions/1…

WHIZ IS THIS YOU

@Host

four years ago
yes

[Host]

<Snipped quote by Host>

four years ago
yes

@Mammalia

Good example, according to the dude in the answer. I just stumbled across that when I looked up a weird sentence.

[Bishop]

@Fractured I wasn't doubting the existence of free will, I was saying that predestination is how this world works. All the choices you make out of your own free will, they all gather up and if you see them from the future as memories, all those choices you made, from the point you're standing in the future, they are set in stone and as so they are set in stone from the beginning. Really don't know how to explain it better.

The dominoes can choose to fall their own way but no matter how many times you replay that falling, without you, yourself, changing anything they will fall the same over and over again. No matter how many time it repeats, the falling patter won't change without an outside force influencing them.

Karma is a lie...selfish and greedy people who become rich and happy at the expense of others usually are just that, rich and happy.

[Fractured]

@Bishop

I find that people tend to be significantly more unhappy than not, even if they do seem content. But putting that aside, I think we can get to a common understanding here. When you say that they're set in stone in the future and therefore set in stone in the past, I think I may have an idea of what you mean. Do you think that if we restarted the universe in 100% the same state as its original origin, everything would play out the exact same way?

[Bishop]

@Fractured This universe, within this timeline and the patterns that have brought us here, if everything went the exact same way affected by the exact same forces in the beginning then yes, everything would play out the same.

[Nimda]

@Fractured This universe, within this timeline and the patterns that have brought us here, if everything went the exact same way affected by the exact same forces in the beginning then yes, everything would play out the same.

@Bishop

Right, in the sense that any set of chemical reactions would play out the same way. Would you agree that if there were a degree of randomness to human will (i.e. not physically stationed and determined by chemical reactions) then things would potentially play out differently?

[souleaterfan320]

Who all is on board with the end of my arc? I would like to get that started, soon. This waiting is making it get stale, IMO.

[Fractured]

Who all is on board with the end of my arc? I would like to get that started, soon. This waiting is making it get stale, IMO.

@souleaterfan320

Yo.

[souleaterfan320]

<Snipped quote by souleaterfan320>

Yo.

@Fractured

I figured you would be, you're here like all the time.

[Fractured]

<Snipped quote by Fractured>

I figured you would be, you're here like all the time.

@souleaterfan320

Can confirm. Literally whenever I'm awake, I'm here. Whenever there's a reply, I post.

[souleaterfan320]

<Snipped quote by souleaterfan320>

Can confirm. Literally whenever I'm awake, I'm here. Whenever there's a reply, I post.

@Fractured

I noticed.

[Bishop]

@Nimda *Sigh* Yes, randomness. And everything is decided by randomness, and yes there is free will as I already established in my previous posts. But all those patterns of randomness, in the end, they line up to something and those patterns that have formed, out of free will and/or out of randomness, they have formed no matter what did it so they are set in stone and predestined to happen. So no matter how many times you turn back time and press the "play" button, they will happen the exact.same.way.

SO tell me this, if we went back 10 years, what possible reason would anyone have to do anything differently from whatever went through history? Tell me the most minuscule action that could be done differently by anyone so as to go against history and why in the world would they do it so?

[Fractured]

@Nimda *Sigh* Yes, randomness. And everything is decided by randomness, and yes there is free will as I already established in my previous posts. But all those patterns of randomness, in the end, they line up to something and those patterns that have formed, out of free will and/or out of randomness, they have formed no matter what did it so they are set in stone and predestined to happen. So no matter how many times you turn back time and press the "play" button, they will happen the exact.same.way.

SO tell me this, if we went back 10 years, what possible reason would anyone have to do anything differently from whatever went through history? Tell me the most minuscule action that could be done differently by anyone so as to go against history and why in the world would they do it so?

@Bishop

If there truly is randomness, then we can turn back the clock and everything could play out totally differently. That's what randomness is.

[Bishop]

At the moment when you select a choice, select an action, that is totally random at that moment as you see it from the perspective of someone in the present. After that moment, the choice is already made and there is no more randomness. So tell me, if you go back to a state in time and have the exact same thoughts, be in the exact same state where everything is the exact same, how could you pick something else besides the choice you already made before going back in time? The choice was made of your own free will and you decided to pick that exact choice so why would it change?

Why would the movement of molecules, particles, energy waves etc etc change if the universe is reset? True, they were completely random at start, no real lines connecting any of them and you didn't know what would come but for someone in the future who knows what is to come and what is to transpire, there are lines connecting everything. You could randomly pick letters and numbers like 1/2/g/s/H/6, totally random right? But for someone in the future who knows what you pick there are lines connecting those choices, a sequence.

[Fractured]

@Bishop

That's not random. Randomness by definition is not the same every time. In a naturalist world, randomness cannot exist.

[Bishop]

@Fractured "Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability in events." as seen from someone in the present facing such randomness as he doesn't know the future. But after knowing the future there is no randomness as you know everything and how it will end up.

[Fractured]

@Fractured "Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability in events." as seen from someone in the present facing such randomness as he doesn't know the future. But after knowing the future there is no randomness as you know everything and how it will end up.

@Bishop

You can predict anything with enough data; that's why science works at all. In computer science, we have to study why randomness is totally impossible in software and why we have to do our best to make our numbers act random, even if they're not (i.e. too many variables or uncontrollable variables to influence).

[Bishop]

Yeah I'm certain that you can predict anything with enough data of cause-effects that influence something. Hell, with a device that can let you read minds, another device that can read a dna and know exactly the type of personality and thought pattern, emotion etc that person has and many other devices calculating many other data and an advanced super computer to simulate while taking all that data into account you can predict the future of humanity down to the last pebble that is kicked away by someone walking in the streets.

Randomness comes out of our incapability to predict or know why something or someone decided to do that/went down that path/took that action. But saying that everything is predictable doesn't really make it any easier predicting so until we reach that point, which will never happen, it will be called randomness.

And my point when I used "randomness" and "free will" was to underline the fact that however unpredictable the choice you make is, even if it is affected by things outside of chemical reactions and physical laws, the truest sense of randomness, completely unpredictable, it doesn't change the fact that it is predestined in this timeline. The road is set and no matter in which part of the path you are, there is only one path to follow in this timeline.

I still don't get how God=/=predestination. I thought everyone would make that connection.

[Fractured]

@Bishop

You're arguing against me before I've made a point is why you don't get it yet. The universe absolutely is predestined if there is no God, correct?