Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Rtron
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Edit: At this point, y'all should do yourself a favor and just call Amul. Cause I can't even control Amy anymore.


Nah, Vestec will slap Amy around a little lot. Amul won't come in till, say, Amy actually reaches godhood and the other deities can't just slap him because he's half mortal anymore.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by LokiLeo789
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<Snipped quote by LokiLeo789>

Nah, Vestec will slap Amy around a little lot. Amul won't come in till, say, Amy actually reaches godhood and the other deities can't just slap him because he's half mortal anymore.


Oh, what fun that will be. I can't wait for godhood. Although Amy may not be the same weirdo he is now.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by IrishAngelQueen
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<Snipped quote by IrishAngelQueen>

Soon, he's on the list!

<Snipped quote by LokiLeo789>

VESTEC HONORS HIS AGREEMENTS, UNLIKE AMY.


Sweet heaven, you actually have mercy. Can't wait.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Kho
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@Slime The Knights Who Until Recently Said 'Ni', you mean. I beg of you, sir! Do not let them hear of it!
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by LokiLeo789
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<Snipped quote by Rtron>

Sweet heaven, you actually have mercy. Can't wait.


Honest, Amy isn't that bad. He's really Divinus's small time street thug.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Slime
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@Slime The Knights Who Until Recently Said 'Ni', you mean. I beg of you, sir! Do not let them hear of it!


I beg of you, sir! Do not let them hear of it!


Do not let them hear of it!


It!


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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Vec
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<Snipped quote by Vec>

You say that, but what happens where two gods of more or less equal power swear by Amul? It's not like they could exactly force anything out of the other without potentially procuring serious damage, and so lying may be better.
And it's always better to enter deals with creatures, even if they're weaker than you, for the sake of keeping up a good public image - otherwise, the other gods might get annoyed and decide to give you what's for. The equivalent of CKII's tyranny or EUIV's aggressive expansion >.> so lying there may be good for the sake of getting what you want by more cunning means while preserving a good image


The thing is, it all comes down to the question you asked earlier - will Amul enforce those oaths? If yes, then swearing in his name is practically signing a contract, and if you don't abide by it, you will get punished accordingly. If no, then I don't even know why we are having this discussion.
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<Snipped quote by Kho>

The thing is, it all comes down to the question you asked earlier - will Amul enforce those oaths? If yes, then swearing in his name is practically signing a contract, and if you don't abide by it, you will get punished accordingly. If no, then I don't even know why we are having this discussion.


If he would enforce them then that's that - and you've got a surefire way of involving a Primordial in pretty much anything you want, which is unprecedented.
If he doesn't enforce them, then it's interesting that those who are swearing by him are doing so - they clearly think he would. It would have various ramifications if an oath in his name is broken and nothing happens. I mean, I never expected a being like Heartworm to view Amul in such high regard that it would consider swearing by him binding - it certainly would change its view on the world tremendously if that was shaken due to Amul doing nothing, no?

As I say, whether or whether not Amul enforces these oaths, we end up with a rather interesting situation. Am I making sense? Is any of this half as important/interesting as I think it is? Three days of doing nothing but read ICs has me more involved with Divinus than with Earth. I aspire towards becoming a Divinus scholar. I will soon be able to quote Conata posts by rote.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Rtron
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<Snipped quote by Vec>

If he would enforce them then that's that - and you've got a surefire way of involving a Primordial in pretty much anything you want, which is unprecedented.
If he doesn't enforce them, then it's interesting that those who are swearing by him are doing so - they clearly think he would. It would have various ramifications if an oath in his name is broken and nothing happens. I mean, I never expected a being like Heartworm to view Amul in such high regard that it would consider swearing by him binding - it certainly would change its view on the world tremendously if that was shaken due to Amul doing nothing, no?

As I say, whether or whether not Amul enforces these oaths, we end up with a rather interesting situation. Am I making sense? Is any of this half as important/interesting as I think it is? Three days of doing nothing but read ICs has me more involved with Divinus than with Earth. I aspire towards becoming a Divinus scholar. I will soon be able to quote Conata posts by rote.


The way I figured it, If you just swear by Amul, you're fairly serious but could be lying. Nothing to enforce you either way.

If you do what Vestec has been doing and putting might into it, you're making a binding contract that forces both sides to uphold their bargain or face serious consequences. Whether those consequences include Amul himself, that is up in the air.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Frettzo
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<Snipped quote by Kho>

The way I figured it, If you just swear by Amul, you're fairly serious but could be lying. Nothing to enforce you either way.

If you do what Vestec has been doing and putting might into it, you're making a binding contract that forces both sides to uphold their bargain or face serious consequences. Whether those consequences include Amul himself, that is up in the air.


rtronpharmaceuticals.com

Dude congrats on your new business btw xD
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Kho
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Rtron Pharmaceuticals? This is an extremely dangerous development.
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<Snipped quote by Rtron>

rtronpharmaceuticals.com

Dude congrats on your new business btw xD


Rtron Pharmaceuticals? This is an extremely dangerous development.


That's right. You wanna get that adderal to pump out posts?

You gotta go through me.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Frettzo
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By the way, I'm currently writing the entirety of the arc with the Beast, up to its resolution. It will amount up to a couple dozen thousand words, if my estimations are correct. I'll be sending PMs to certain players asking for some info on their gods' symbols and worshipers in a few days.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by IrishAngelQueen
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<Snipped quote by Kho>

The way I figured it, If you just swear by Amul, you're fairly serious but could be lying. Nothing to enforce you either way.

If you do what Vestec has been doing and putting might into it, you're making a binding contract that forces both sides to uphold their bargain or face serious consequences. Whether those consequences include Amul himself, that is up in the air.


It's a bit like how in the Immortals After Dark series by Kresley Cole, if you swear to the Lore you are bound to keep that oath or face terrible consequences, and depedning on what you swore to do, it could result in your death. Whereas if you just vow to do something and don't include the words "I vow to the Lore," you are not bound to that oath except for your own word, and we all know that promises are made and broken all the time.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by BBeast
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I'm back! I've caught up on the OOC. It's late, though, so I'll read the IC and Kho's extension of the mega-summary tomorrow.


@BBeast Did you ever continue the great summary beyond page 13? Because if you haven't I think I might add to it as I read. If you have, let me know so our effort isn't victim to ignorant inefficiency


I have not updated the summary beyond that point. Feel free to help out. Just remember to include all Might expenditure, and be certain to highlight the creation and naming of everything (within reason. For instance, the entire genealogy of the Eskandars I deemed as excessive for the mega-summary). It is intended as a reference of key events. Events which have no lasting influence need only the briefest mention, while events which influence the world at large should be noted.

@BBeast Did Teknall ever have that chat with Jvan about all the raping and altering of mortal minds against their will which featured heavily in Violence's accusation against her in Stand? I know he chatted with her after Vowzra was killed, but not sure if he did talk about this matter in particular. If he didn't, the consequences might feature in a future post of mine.


Teknall did not bring up that topic. Teknall was mostly talking to Phi at the time. On that topic, he wanted Jvan's own opinions, not whatever PR lies Phi could concoct.

<Snipped quote by Slime>

Wait...what?! We have a wiki page?! Dude! May I have the link? Also, I'm a bit lost as to what to have Athanasios do next. I Want him to level up and do something purposeful, but I just can't seem to find even a half-reasonable excuse for it.
I blame summer school.
You're basically teaching yourself.
Math.
I fucking hate math unless it involves me getting more money or music from the iTunes store.


I've spent a reasonable portion of my holidays teaching myself maths. Of my own free will.

Guys, question.

What are your thoughts on the potential...merger...of divine beings? I.e a demigod and a god, or a god and a god, or a demigod and a demigod, becoming 'one being'. What implications would that have for the Might, level, domains(portfolios) etc. of said being/s?
I mean, with Vestec we see a rather disharmonious and destructive instance, but what would happen if a more harmonious merger occurred? Or, at least, a more 'natural' merger.


Intriguing. This is definitely something to be carefully considered on a case by case basis.

The new entity should be considered as a regular god/demigod. My thoughts: Either they would obtain an average level or the level of the greatest. The Might would probably combine, up to the cap. Domains/Portfolios would probably combine, up to the level cap. Excess Domains/Portfolios would be lost, although might may be dumped into levelling up. It is possible that Domains/Portfolios could be modified so they would coalesce into a single Domain/Portfolio.

P.S. I also agree with what Mutton wrote.
What I think we can quickly agree on is that the new entity will need to exist within the rules of gods or demigods (whichever is appropriate), meaning in particular that there will be a cap on Portfolios and Domains. Additionally, I believe any such mergers would need to be explicitly approved by the GMs, for essentially this is a new player character we are talking about.

<Snipped quote by Vec>

If he would enforce them then that's that - and you've got a surefire way of involving a Primordial in pretty much anything you want, which is unprecedented.
If he doesn't enforce them, then it's interesting that those who are swearing by him are doing so - they clearly think he would. It would have various ramifications if an oath in his name is broken and nothing happens. I mean, I never expected a being like Heartworm to view Amul in such high regard that it would consider swearing by him binding - it certainly would change its view on the world tremendously if that was shaken due to Amul doing nothing, no?

As I say, whether or whether not Amul enforces these oaths, we end up with a rather interesting situation. Am I making sense? Is any of this half as important/interesting as I think it is? Three days of doing nothing but read ICs has me more involved with Divinus than with Earth. I aspire towards becoming a Divinus scholar. I will soon be able to quote Conata posts by rote.


This is indeed an interesting thought. My thinking is that Amul might get involved directly if his name is abused in a particularly significant manner, although I feel like Primordials might be a bit above the petty politics of the pantheon. This is definitely worthy of GM'ly discussion (it might help if we knew what the hell Amul is meant to do, though). It is possible that Amul might intervene, but indirectly.

If, on the other hand, Might has been expended on the deal (as it was between Vestec and Teknall all those eons ago, in the events leading up to Stand. I guess that the latest Phi post includes similar stuff, although I'm not sure since I haven't read it yet), then the godly Might itself enforces the deal, bringing a curse of some description on the breaker of the oath. Perhaps spending Might on an oath in Amul's name might just garner his attention, although the chances may be slim.

Considering that you've been around for a while, has there been any previous incidents involving the Primordials in previous iterations of Divinus?
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Hidden 2 yrs ago 2 yrs ago Post by Antarctic Termite
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About Primordial shenanigans... I basically just took cues from the idea that Amul is there to offer occasional guidance and assistance. Putting Might into making a deal binding felt kind of weird and wasteful, since it isn't particularly miraculous, especially when I thought Jvan would wake up soon and my planned budget was much narrower.

It's also very much a Heartworm thing to do. Slippery little thing really isn't too keen on getting betrayed when you pack so little heat. Best to try and get the toughest lad in town involved and hope he cares. Phi, on the other hand, was happy to put her trust in a handshake, and even that she tried to wiggle out of.

Whether or not it actually is binding I have no idea. Heartworm seems to think so. That might be important later.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Frettzo
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About Primordial shenanigans... I basically just took cues from the idea that Amul is there to offer occasional guidance and assistance. Putting Might into making a deal binding felt kind of weird and wasteful, since it isn't particularly miraculous, especially when I thought Jvan would wake up soon and my planned budget was much narrower.

It's also very much a Heartworm thing to do. Slippery little thing really isn't too keen on getting betrayed when you pack so little heat. Best to try and get the toughest lad in town involved and hope he cares. Phi, on the other hand, was happy to put her trust in a handshake, and even that she tried to wiggle out of.

Whether or not it actually is binding I have no idea. Heartworm seems to think so. That might be important later.


JVAN HAS TO SPEAK TO HER FAVORITE GIRLFRIEND ASTARTE WHEN SHE WAKES UP
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Antarctic Termite
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@Frettzo I'VE NEVER SEEN A BETTER INCENTIVE TO WRITE THOSE DARN WAKE-UP POSTS

WELCOME BACK
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by IrishAngelQueen
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<Snipped quote by IrishAngelQueen>

I've spent a reasonable portion of my holidays teaching myself maths. Of my own free will.


Why in the hell would you do that to yourself?
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<Snipped quote by BBeast>

Why in the hell would you do that to yourself?


You clearly haven't been around here long enough to know that I like maths.

@BBeast Did Teknall ever have that chat with Jvan about all the raping and altering of mortal minds against their will which featured heavily in Violence's accusation against her in Stand? I know he chatted with her after Vowzra was killed, but not sure if he did talk about this matter in particular. If he didn't, the consequences might feature in a future post of mine.


Now that I'm well rested, I'll give an extended response to this question.

Just to confirm that we're talking about the same thing, I presume we're talking about Sculptors. They're the only mortals who are routinely altered by Jvan; all else are rare and isolated incidents.

Of note is that Sculptors, when the transformation process begins, always have a part of them that was (at least initially) willing to become a Sculptor, although not necessarily aware of the full ramifications of that process. Thus, the Sculptor transformation is not entirely against their will. Informed consent is definitely lacking, though. Many Sculptors accept the transformation even before it's complete (Flux was an outlier. Termite said so), although you could argue that this is because their minds are bent to accept it. The morality of the matter is slightly more ambiguous than portrayed by Violence, although it is admittedly still morally wrong on numerous levels.

Thus, one hurdle for Teknall in discussing the matter with Jvan is explaining the concept of informed consent to an amoral god who generally views mortals as tools and toys.

Another hurdle is the fact that mature Sculptors are useful for Teknall's own ends. The peculiar intellect and personality of a Sculptor, while usually used for frivolous things, can be directed towards functions which are beneficial for Civilisation, such as medicine and alchemy. For Teknall, the typical process of making a Sculptor is immoral, but the Sculptors themselves are good and useful.

Is this hypocritical? Probably. Will he do anything about it? Possibly, although he might avoid the issue as long as he can.
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