SleepingSilence

How can we help improve RPGuild? Community suggestions and discussion.

Oh boy, reading through 7 pages and probably even more as it took me forever to read and address things that I want to ask. I also really hope this doesn't get me in trouble. >.< So I'll start of by thanking @Buddha for making this thread. People who have participated and the mods who have responded. Thank you for doing your best to keep this forum I place that I go to for entertainment! <3 (and if I perish, it was nice knowing you all. ;_;)

Okay, onto the various topics I'd like to address. (Apologize for how scattershot, it may be or if it comes off as confusing or offensive. Did my best to express my opinions fairly and organize my many points.)

1. Mods don't have the time to look through everything.

Because they aren't being paid and have jobs and lifes outside of the forum. Because there's too much stuff for a few people to reasonably look at everything.

There are deficiencies with mod availability, I will freely admit that. We're all busy people and how we effectively moderate is through mod reports - whether by PM or DM on discord. As to needing extra mods, from our discussions every one of us is in agreement that we either need more mods or people more available, however a bad previous experience with a mod makes mod selection very important.

@Kangaroo

Now there have been a number of plans and concepts which never came off around how to run staffing but again it falls back to this is Mahz's hobby, not his job.

@Kangaroo

Unless you want mods trawling through every thread on the forum.
But is what you expect from a mod team to be constantly refreshing and patrolling a white board?

@Kangaroo

I'll get to why this statement bugs me later on, (in the 4th hider.) But the basic things I want to touch on and question are...

1. If it isn't the creator of the forum's job to run their forum, who DOES burden that responsibility? I call it a burden because I'm sure it probably too big of a problem than one person can handle, and the fact that you bring up. "You expect like 3 people to look at ALL of the forum constantly?" Well aside from the slightly obvious responce, "Yes, I do sort of want moderators to moderate a forum, it is their jobs." But I perfectly understand that is an extreme amount of workload that I also do not expect 2 people to do efficiently, but what frustrates me even more goes into my next hider.

2. Mods think having sub-moderators are a bad idea.

I think subforum mods are a bad idea; we don't want staff actively combing through threads to hunt down every infraction - our moderator model was always built on responding to requests rather than active hunting.

@Kangaroo

2. Why do you not want the exact thing that would fix every problem, if it was done correctly? The problem is there's too many forums and you cannot realistically look at them all. And you every say, how do you expect us to comb over every thread. Well with sub forum moderators, you wouldn't need to. I've seen other forums use this tactic and the were generally more free from clutter and spam. I have not heard any cons brought up from this, so I'll let it at a huge question mark on why this doesn't want to be done. Ten random mods still have the WHOLE forum to go through and it would require constant communication on what other moderators have gone through and not which is more time you wouldn't even need to speed, if each mod had to browse only one part of the forum. It lightens absolutely everyone's workload, and let's say we have one that is lazy and never does anything or one that seems a little too trigger happy. That's still a much higher percentage of forum that gets to run properly as a result.

3. Mods are doing just fine, infact the fact they appear inactive is a good thing.

And people who are interested and want the job to be proactive is somehow a bad thing for a moderator.

Gotta say, I think the Mods do a great job. Any time I've had an issue, it hasn't taken long to get a response. I've never seen a reason to doubt that, either.
Those of us who've been around a while know what happens when the Mods get very visible and very proactive--it's usually not a good thing.
Also, from personal experience, some of the Mods are more active than you think. Some of them like it that way.

@Ruby

3. While that's fantastic for your experience, I personally had an event that unfolded over days upon days with absolutely no resolution or even a response to some of it, that only continued to spiral out of control and made me outright leave and if I didn't make so many good friends. I'd never have come back. I'm not the only one even on this thread that has expressed problems with feelings that nothing had been done.

And I straight up do not understand the argument that people actually enjoy a seemingly ineffective member opposed, to someone obviously active and involved in the community or even someone possibly controversial. Because I absolutely know how human nature detests the idea of a king idly sitting by on their throne.

I'd even argue one that actually did it's job, but was obviously over stepping boundaries would, not only unite member under "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" rule. Where I've seen sites be united over certain particular mods that aren't mature with their jobs. Better than outright divisiveness and a complete mystery. Plus a mod overstepping boundaries often would be perfectly obvious and not a "well you have to take my word on it." And could be removed as a problem quickly. It's clear (at least I think.) That moderators can ban and can thereby undo it. So if a newly employed mod constantly messes up, just un-ban those people and deal with the problem. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs...

To me, anyone who wants to be a mod probably isn't going to do too great in the role - then again people would argue I'm not either.

@Kangaroo

I still cannot believe I said that, I've always gone by the rule "never appoint someone as a mod who wants to be a mod" - Why? Because it usually backfires. I understand the stress of picking a mod that will be a good balance of getting the job done without alienating the forum because "power" went to their head. I also can sympathize with getting an admin to appoint people to help lessen the work for others because as a staff you get tight knit and count on each other.

@Lady Amalthea

I just cannot understand what this is implying and frankly I don't think those words are thought out very carefully. People who want to be mods, like want to actually actively moderate a forum. Is a negative thing and backfires?

So what does that mean for mods currently in power? I know it seems like there's a lot of questioning and verbal musical chairs over whose responsibility is whose and people explaining doing this job is too difficult. Does this imply the opposite is what we currently have and that it's a good thing that won't produce repercussions?
I'd like to think not...

But yes, not everyone who thinks mods aren't doing every little thing, or has "ideas" doesn't remotely mean they are qualified for the job, but I don't get why having extremely vocal and active members would somehow be negative or looked down upon in a position of power. Honestly, if applications were a thing. Ironically one qualification should probably be, "do you have a job outside." and if no, hire them...because at that point there's less distractions to get in the way.

4. The community can enforce the rules and things aren't reported enough, which make it impossible for the job to be done.

As to the reporting system - in every forum there is a pinned thread which instructs you to report incidents. If incidents aren't reported, they can't be dealth with.

@Kangaroo

We are active but we often don't see what isn't brought to our attention as the staff is currently comprised of people who work full-time.

@Hank

We trust the userbase to self-police most of the time. We're janitors, not police officers. That said, what can't be solved by reprimanding each other and reminding offenders of what the rules are should be PM'd to (one of) us.

As it stands, this very rarely happens. I assume this means that my help is practically never needed. If that is not the case, the responsibility lies with the users to involve one of us to render judgement.

@Hank

I know when I came here I had some issues I should have reported but actually reporting made me feel "off" so I kept my mouth shut. One situation got bad. Granted once I did report it, it was quickly taken care of.

@Lady Amalthea

<Snipped quote>
I have to agree with this. I have never reported anything because it seems more practical to walk away from the thread or handle the matter yourself.

@Kratesis

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but the problem is that this is the internet. Anonymity allows people to act without basic respect and common courtesies and I've been following this thread and the previous discussions for a while. Everyone is saying this and everyone agrees. But we are only ourselves, and we cannot make people be nicer, less rude.
Though this is a new account, I've been on this website for a long time and I've reported several things to mods. Any response that I've gotten takes at least a week, and it's always been "Sorry, doesn't infringe on any of the rules, can't do anything about it." Even if people are being extremely rude and toxic, or even outright harassing others.
I don't want this website to be overly policed and ridden with rules, but in my opinion the current rules are way too vague, and are unenforced. To me it seems like there are so many toxic people on the guild, and they have absolutely no reason to stop spamming weird things and being extremely rude and hurtful because they have no consequences.
I get where the mods are coming from, I really do. They can't waste time on every little squabble that happens, and a lot of issues brought to them probably really don't need a mod to step in. But I also do know that several people feel the same way as I do so obviously there's something wrong, some sort of disconnect.
The community can only go so far to self-police, and when that happens it often can turn into a witch-hunt that ends badly.
And why would you report if you already know that nothing is going to be done?

@Sylph

I think this own thread alone perfectly counters the very idea of a community police'd forum, because there's plenty of members, not just the several that admitted it here. But next to nobody actually reports problems that they see, because they aren't apart of it. So therefore isn't there problem. And it's perfectly acceptable to do this...especially if you also believe that nothing will ever be solved on top of things, or have personal experience we're you've seen with you're own eyes...

And my frustrated point, "The mods shouldn't be policeman and look through every single thread and refresh to double check." It's a hobby, we're not paid, it's not our jobs.

Well, it's not the any individual member's job either, every single member online has there own life, job and real life problems to deal with. As much as I sympathies and know it's not an easy job. It's frankly irresponsible to say, it's not my job to scour through things and waste my time, without pay. When it's equally true for every other person as well. In fact it's more so, because they don't have any power to do anything about it. The moderators do...

We are trying and the purpose of making these topics is in an attempt to hear what others have to say, unite the community, and try to help the website that we love. Honestly don't really know anymore and I'm beginning to feel a bit jaded about the Guild.
I think that the Guild is stagnating and even if that isn't true, there seems to an insanely hostile/toxic atmosphere across the board.

@Cynder

You feel that people are toxic, because it's already happened on this very thread, it's not hard to come by. And that in itself is a problem. It's precisely because harrassment is never properally punished or dealt with...or well it is, but that leads me to another point in hider 5.

5. Mods don't like banning, and it's a complicated business.

While I am not a mod myself, I have spoken to a few of them on occasion, and while I cannot speak for every situation you have reported someone on for, I can probably tell you why mods seem sort of helpless themselves.
Mahz doesn't like banning. It will happen from time to time, but it's rare enough IMO. Because they said they were very sorry or something.
Their hands may be tied more than you'd think.
I'm sure the mods warn, probably in PMs- I know they have done things before because I've reported others in the past who have been banned.

@Nytem4re

Okay, a couple of minor points before going into a statement that I really hope doesn't get me banned for making. Because it comes from a genuine concern...

If you don't like banning someone forever for several bad actions but totally promise to never do anything again. Temporary bans are a possibility and exist...you have to enforce rules or their is no point in having them and I'm sorry if you break the rules enough times, (three times usually.) It's unlikely that the person will stop and they're better off not being here...also as for warning people privately to stop. Literally had this confirmed to be by a mod, that they warned people to back off, and in under an hour they immediately went back at it and nothing was done with that person's account. So whether, warning are actually given or if it's people knowing they won't be banned, so they don't care about it. The point is warnings very rarely do anything to stop people from behaving in a toxic way.

My statement comes from the fact that "a few people have been banned." and a discussion from the very first post like this which went like. "We shouldn't have a reactionary/emotional mod." Makes me think of the only few bans of the forum that I'm aware of.

A. One was somebody, wrongfully calling a moderator inactive and not being particularly tasteful. They were banned almost on the spot.

B. And another was a person harassing another user, who had repeated issues of doing so, and that time just happened to piss a moderator off.

And to clarify once again, in an attempt to be balanced and fair as possible. I completely respect those decisions, because as a member I should believe the moderators are doing the right thing. I'm making no personal judgement or statement in any writing I'm doing. Or at least not trying to, so I sincerely apologize if anyone takes this the wrong way. Plus, I don't know every single thing about it but my outlook does matter. Even if I'm aware and even agree with the decisions made.

So, my question comes to, "Why exactly is having an emotional/reactionary mod a bad thing?" because from my perspective (which I admit is limited) that's exactly what's already going on...

Both people broke the rules, probably multiple times from reasons of harassment. Which is exactly how the forum should be running. So my question is, why hasn't everyone that's done the exact same thing also not punished? I have plenty of examples...and as someone with limited outlook, I can tell you what those appear to have in common...which further comes into question of needing the community to look through everything and how much is actually being looked into. When the most recent bans that I'm aware of, have been because they've been on a moderator's doorstep.

Once again, not attempting to ask this in anything other than genuine concern from a place I like and only want to improve and I also highly appreciate all the things you guys do, even if some of it is under the radar. I sympathize and know everything will take time and I'm more than willing to be patient. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from and know this is far from any personal judgement or attack on any group or individual.

6. Other (Just general replies to other members for things I'd consider off topic from my main point.)

As far as the sub-forums go, I think there should be a smut and non smut section for the 1x1s because I too feel uncomfortable with certain themes getting lumped in alongside the more 'family friendly' ones.
Also Casual RP could be split into Low-Mid-High casual just for the sake of more space.

@Garattee

Yay, the very little college I've done has finally come in handy. Website design 101 usually goes against that idea, the more compact and simple the forum is the better. So splitting up one forum into three of them. Just adds more clutter to the site...it also currently closely resembles other sites, which is good for familiarity sake. I really absolutely have no problems or concerns with how the site should look at this current time.

I haven't read through everything yet but I do believe that maybe we should as a whole venture more into the introduction area and greet newcomers,ask them how they are, what kind of role plays they like, and generally make them feel like they're entering into a positive community.
It's not an overnight solution and wont yield the best results, but it's better than snobbing them and not even making an effort.

@NuttsnBolts

Agreed with being more friendly and chatty to new members. One thing I've brought up before but literally one person's job on the forum (that I was once on.) was to greet people who made introductions...which is why I want Sub-Mods to be a thing seriously discussed.

<Snipped quote by Inkarnate>
yeah, i'm shit with words, but i still stand by the point: what's the point in letting them all have separate subforums, if they're rarely ever active?

@Grimhildr

Because, there different things and niche's. And like the video game industry needs to understand one day. There's nothing wrong with supporting a niche...But to playfully ask a question, what do we do about the things considered inactive? Move them all to a sub-forum called. "The abandoned stuff no ones cares about." How will that help newer members being introduced to them? xP

Maybe this is a bit of a far reach but I've thought about doing give away's. But perhaps it's an idea to add a more.. physical prize. Or at least something worth remembering. Gives people a reason to participate. It's far fetched, but it'd be something to think on.

@Buddha

It's not completely outlandish, I've said anything to make the forum more of an active community the better. There's plently of things that could be done. Would just need somebody to do them...

I've literally done this on a forum before, I made a youtube contest that was a spin off on american idol and had members sing and I'd embarrass myself and act as a host. And promised a grand prize to the winner. :P

And though the only thing I got out of it was friends and made a couple people very popular when they learned they could sing. xP (and a huge target on my back because nice people are hated online I guess.)

But I digress, I don't think it would hurt at all for somebody to create a podcast or have some kind of twitch streamed gaming night. If someone has a little income they're doing nothing with, it could be easy to grant prizes...hell it wouldn't even be that costly...maybe a winner of whatever contest is created could win like a humble bundle of games, which literally would cost a dollar. :P

And maybe, giving strangers online money or prizes seems absurd to you (the possible reader, not you.) But there's people that buy their best friends thousand dollar computers simply because their appreciated. Or maybe makes a dumb contest simply to make a community have something going for it. They exist and could be more than willing to do so. As long as they believed and loved the community at large.

Okay, damn I was just picking names at random, I didn't know you and the Doctor had history, regardless the others I mentioned plus at least 4 more i could name are all chill people. I'm sure you dont think all Trump supporters are racist, so lets not assume that all Arena RPers are trolls.

@Dynamo Frokane

Come on now, you're better than this. Save the political riffing and memes for your thread. ;P

How to go from "Constructive" to "Cancer" in 3 easy steps!

Oh boy drama, well...3 pages in and I saw someone randomly calling someone else a piece of shit for no reason. What else have I missed?

MY BANNER WILL NEVER GO AWAY, IT HAS BECOME MY OWN MEME THAT KEEPS ON GIVING.

Beating the Death Game (Sword Art Online)

SaintXSerafina

Location: Mishe (Forest of Wandering)

"How dare you!" SaintXSerafina hissed. Charging with a violent thrust embedding her spear into the large tree in front of her, piercing the other player's cape and pinning him there, further impeding any chance of escape. The player immediately started making fearful pleas for their life, but it was outright ignored and might as well have been static ringing in her ears. She ripped a cloth satchel strapped to the players waist and quickly dug through it, scattering gold and other valuable items on the ground before pulling out a green vial and placing it inside her belt. The other player remained eerily silent, shaking slightly before she ripped out the spear still aiming it directly at the player.

"That's what you get for trying to take the good loot, despite barely doing any of the work!" She snapped shooting a glare at them, while the player quickly attempted to gather their dropped items and gold, before fleeing without another word. She brushed the hair out of her face and clicked her tongue while resting the spear behind her head and on both shoulders. Heading back thinking he was probably waiting and worried about her well being, since she had been on her own for the briefest matter of time. She was already in an unpleasant mood, her stomach was growling like the wolves she decapitated earlier this morning. She stepped through the dense trees and back onto the road into town.

TheWanderer

Location: Mishe (Weathercock Pavilion)

TheWanderer had recently reentered the first floor of the Weathercock Pavilion. Carefully passing by several individuals talking, after waiting outside for a while longer despite still seeing no signs of his mentor. Searching for a free table inside the restaurant. Surprised by how unoccupied it was, though a larger party seemed to gather and fill up previously vacated seats, before just finally sitting somewhere and looking through the menu and letting out a slight sigh. Resting his head against his folded arms placed on the table, before glancing up at the smiling female server and ordering his food by pointing at what he desired. Not waiting long as he smiled when he received his food, making his mouth water from the aroma's he inhaled through his nose. Beginning to scarf down his food, proceeding to quickly wash it down with some water. "Hopefully, she'll be here soon..."

(@zellected / @Aquanthe)

Men vs. Women Race to 1000

76

Current Mood in One Gif

Video Game Music Appreciation Thread

Probably the most generic violin action song I've ever heard.

It feels like mute and deaf sheep played this song on broken kazoos and the sound quality was recorded with a shoe found in the depths of hell itself. 5/10

Beating the Death Game (Sword Art Online)

@DeadlyPhoenix Will read and reply soon. Just woke up this morning. :P But glad we got this thing started.

What Are You Listening To?

what can we do to help improve roleplayer guild?

But just to remind you guys, this shit has happened before so it is a legitimate concern from the community.

@Inkarnate

Ah, only took a page of scrolling to see somebody calling someone an idiot without provocation (and it not being a joke.) Off topic but still is a little sad to see. ^-^'