Fallenreaper

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

I'm not saying that people cannot make characters that receive their powers "naturally". I just don't think a distinction between "natural" and "artificial" powers needs to be made.

@Dedonus

After what fdeviant stated, I started to lean away and tried to looked at it another way. However, you came back to it and I don’t know if you spotted I was open to accepting the Meta term as being more board description.

What would be the difference between someone who naturally had the "metagene" (and I would define this as an individual who has certain genes that allow him/her to have powers. Not much different from things like eye color, hair texture, etc.) and someone who does not naturally have this "metagene", but through other means this "metagene" is encoded into the person's DNA later in the individual's life?

@Dedonus

I had to look back on one of Jackie’s IC posts (which I didn’t realized I did this to be honest until this post reminded me of something) but I am now starting to consider it’s not whether you have it or not, but rather how it’s turned on. Analyzing her post and considering the mental notes I’m still forming in my head, Jackie’s made it sound like everyone has multiple meta/mutant genes laced in their genome and when an outside influence is introduced to the mix, it can flip key genes on to create powers. That’s, a short simple explanation, of how she creates and evolve her SES.

This makes sense to me as I’ve done some minor research over genetics and learned some genetic markers for certain traits have been ‘switched’ off due to obsolete or lack of need in favor of others. Again, through, it’s a theory last I knew. I would have to research more to make sure.

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

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Pretty sure I did, but I could be wrong. So no worries lol

@nitemare shape

It's on skype so back pedal Clipper fan. Back pedal! :p

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

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Shhhhhh.....plot twists.....;)

@nitemare shape

Not once did you tell me that... that I can recall. XD

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

I think we need to get away from the "natural" vs "artificial" distinction. One big problem is that we literally don't have any characters (at least ones that have been accepted) that received their powers "naturally". So, let's go through them, shall we?

@Dedonus

I personally liked how fdeviant went about his explanation of Meta and a different point to cover, it was a bit less... harsh to me. Namely, right now, you're only considering the ones who are already active. Not the ones in S2 or future.

From the list in the OP, there are three characters that probably would be considered having "natural" abilities. However, even being born with the powers can be problematic. Spider-Man, according to your guys' definition, would be a metahuman because his powers were not "natural". However, would you consider his daughter (either Mayday in MC2 or Anna in Renew Your Vows) a mutant or a metahuman (or mutate in Marvel terminology)? Mayday/Anna were born with their powers, bu they inherited their powers from their father, who did not receive his powers naturally. So would she be a mutant or a metahuman?

@Dedonus

It depends on the abilities, are they identical to Spiderman's to the very letter? If so, I would consider they would be meta due to the fact the abilities were passed but their origins are still unnatural. If their abilities altered and weren't exact, say they lacked webbing or wallcrawling or had venom, than I would lean toward mutation since the genes might've been triggered and were there all along.

Lyger, from what NSM stated, I classed as a mutant as his abilities were originally there but triggered by the meta blood which is similar to the argument you stated. I could even argue, based on what you stated, he could be a bit of both since they combined (though a bit odd to me).

This is the main reason I've not bothered to make a scientific PC or even detail Gene Co's work because I don't want to block people into a set line of thinking, even if I enjoy the aspect and like exploring it in writing.

This line of thinking could even be taken further. So, mutants are supposed to be created by evolution. But what if the first mutants were really just humans that have been altered by either aliens (as the mainstream Marvel mutants are) or by other humans (as the Ultimate Universe mutants were). This even expands to the Inhumans, who were experiments by the Kree. Where is the line drawn? Sure, after several generations, the powers would be "natural" because nothing beyond dominant genes would cause them, but that gene was created artificially to begin with.

See, the bad part of a sandbox with such loose rules is it doesn't matter what I think or create. I can set ideas for my own creations, but someone is going to alter it or change it in some fashion because they don't like the idea .In truth, there's so many ways to look at it as comics have proven. This is the main reason I brought up the conversation at all as see what others though, and maybe share my own views. I never pushed. I even admitted to fdeviant I never looked at the Meta term in that fashion until he brought it up, proving I can shift my thoughts when it's explained in a different way. Despite how it sounds, nothing I state is set in stone even if it is placed into the IC because it won't be universal or likely everyone will accept it.

Therefore, I think that a better schema would be the source of the powers. Are they hybrids? Are the powers the result of a gene(s)? Are the powers magically induced?

Isn't that more of a break down for description? Like how scientist class animals where they have Genus, Family, etc rather than board terms and such as we were discussing about?

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

Lyger - powers granted by blood transfusion with metagene

NSM, if I recall right from the skype conversation, mentioned that the blood transfusion activated Lyger's own natural one. Like a jump start.

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

@Fallenreaper Well the conditions under which one develops powers or becomes Mutant or Meta describes those subcategories. I can also see where the two might be used interchangeably by an uninformed mass, just as people ignorant to different magical practices label all practitioners as sorcerers, mages, witches, etc. To those who don't know their definitions, these words all mean the same thing.

Also, "Meta-human" might be a larger umbrella term under which mutant, hybrid (such as humans with alien DNA), and etc. would classify as subcategories of Meta.

@fdeviant

Isn't the difference, primarily, between sorcerers, mages, witches and etc is where and how they access their abilities? I'm not heavily knowledgeable about the different terms and their uses so I'll admit I'm a bit guilty of this myself. Though if I do know the difference, I make efforts to keep them separate.

Using Meta as an umbrella term for something like that, I wouldn't have issues with as I never considered it before. Though that would make Meta humans less like mutants and more like enhanced humans to me which is reasonable. Though I do consider the term mutant more associated with the Marvel X-men type and description as few actually have shown up in the IC really. At least those officially claimed and confirmed to be mutants.

There is a clear distinction between the meta creations of the domes and natural born ones. So the cure, and idea I gave Xer, would still actually work out as the mutations within the genes would be different than those activated by the Domes.

The bad part about a Sandbox rp, namely one as free form where pretty much everything is accepted, is that it makes certain aspects harder. Example is the scientific stuff over how meta humans are created and formed, unless it's the player's own creation and they get another individual willing to make compromises over the over all structure which will be acceptable for both plots/creations.

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

*points at Ded as a case her logic didn't work*

Though honestly, using Meta and Mutant indiscriminately does bother me to a degree. Even using Meta human in the same fashion as you use Human to describe Hispanic, Asian, Caucasian, etc. would indicate there's more than one category/species of Mutant which begs the question what is that other type?

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

So you want to distinguish meta-humans as artificial and mutants as natural? Makes sense.

@MelonHead

Pretty much as that's how they are in my mind. Though considering this is a sandbox, not everyone is going to see it like that and I don't want to end up pushing my thoughts on anyone. Hence why I asked thoughts and such before I shared mine.

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

@Fallenreaper I would. But sadly I'm at work.

@VATROU

*hugs* You can give your thoughts over on the subject later.

Create-A-Hero: A Superhero RPG (Closed)

@fdeviant @Melonhead

The way I usually saw it was like this:

Metas were often man's attempt, either on purpose or by accident, to overcome nature's design.
Mutants were often nature's way to alter and evolve due to circumstances, namely since both are pretty closely tied together.

I looked up the definition over mutant which is basically this in the wiki:

In biology and especially genetics, a mutant is an organism or a new genetic character arising or resulting from an instance of mutation, which is a base-pair sequence change within the DNA of a gene or chromosome of an organism. The natural occurrence of genetic mutations is integral to the process of evolution. The study of mutants is an integral part of biology; by understanding the effect that a mutation in a gene has, it is possible to establish the normal function of that gene.

In baseline, mutations are created by evolution which means the gene is there but not switched on or it is altered from its original creation. Meta, usually, felt more like it was Man's attempt to prove he was better than Nature and improve on what he saw was a flaw. Some times it was accidental and people were just tossed into chemicals, bitten by radioactive spiders, etc in comics which made them beyond human due to humans trying to improve on what natural life they were given. (granted, some chems were never stated why they were there.)

I asked this because I was attempted to explore those small differences at some point as Gene Co will be creating a cure for Meta humans thanks to the virus that Rach has. It is able to rewrite and construct DNA, both triggering naturally existing genes that give humans abilities and with more human tampering can control what abilities manifest and denied. It stands to reason the virus could also be used to either temporary fix, alter or completely cease a meta human's abilitiesm turning them back into their original forms. Mutants, however, due to their DNA, and it being apart of them rather than man made, would be unaffected for the most part.

After talking with Xer, in order to sort his origin story out, I considered the possibility that the mutant population would start to rise since the Meta's increase from the domes. Sort of like a world wide evolutionary event and might be fun to play out over time, though again this is a sandbox and everyone's thoughts differ over the subject of Metas and Mutants. So, pardon the ramble. xD