The Harbinger of Ferocity

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I have long since peered into it, @POOHEAD189. It has gotten to the point I refer people to this, because it includes a myriad of references and events as an aggregate post. As an addition, it might not be gospel, but if even eighty percent is accurate, that is closer to truth.

It is the same reason I do not even bother striking first against the blade of "racist", "Islamophobe" and "homophobe", among the other labels. I believe it is high time the burden of proof be put on the accusing party, not that you specifically are them in this case, but in general. No one can point to the infamous party switch and there's more to suggest no such thing happened. Just saying it aloud should help indicate as to why that is unlikely.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I hear this argument a lot and to date no one can show me where and when, let alone how, the parties were switched on platform, @POOHEAD189.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

A few more quotes, just for added measure.

"There is a terrible war coming, and these young men who have never seen war cannot wait for it to happen, but I tell you, I wish that I owned every slave in the South, for I would free them all to avoid this war."

Robert E. Lee

"So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that Slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interest of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this that I would have cheerfully lost all that I have lost by the war, and have suffered all that I have suffered to have this object attained."

Robert E. Lee

"There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil."

Robert E. Lee

"I believe it to be the duty of everyone to unite in the restoration of the country and the reestablishment of peace and harmony."

Robert E. Lee

"A nation which does not remember what it was yesterday does not know where it is today."

Robert E. Lee

The last is particularly relevant in our day and age, wherein we are content to destroy and bury our past because it is inconvenient and hurts feelings. No less first said by the man whose likeness is now under attack.

As far as I can tell you, General Lee was neither some great martyr of the South nor was he an abomination that cared nothing for the subject of slavery. If anything to me, the man sounds quite human and surprisingly humane. Most anything I can find on him, of which is legitimate, suggests he is not who he is made out to be, which is, as one can reason, closer to truth.

Regardless, specifically now to @Skepic.

No matter what perspective you use on the matter, the majority at the time did not want that. It did not represent the American vision, specifically the Union's who was ultimately the victor. There's a number of reasons for this, not to say they did not try to enact revenge on the Confederacy for the war (at the time those calling for "added justice" against the Confederacy were Radical Republicans, a fun fact of history nestled there), but more than anything I can say from their view as much as I can understand it, it was for the best. A President was murdered and his vision of the Union was to die with him if they did not follow through with it.

Human beings are emotional and sentimental, as they were then and as they are now. There was no credible way any sort of revenge against the South was likely to take place. This works in both directions as well, as these men were honorable to a fault. Yes, they truly did believe by and large that by shaking hands and signing defeat that the war was over. Within they knew it was not, human nature could tell you that for the very reasons you stated, but they held themselves to a higher standard that the majority of people, the regular folk then and to come, could not. They followed honor and dignity to the point it might have well done more harm than good.

As for leaving problems for the future, every generation before the current and many, many before them have posed this problem throughout history. This is no special exception and relatively speaking, not a very unique one if we are talking at length about all of human history.

Transitioning, I can pose you any number of examples as to why I could say the same thing about various other monuments of American history, of which are almost assuredly built well after their relevance. They symbolize dark, cruel time periods in our history or nothing we would really understand as the United States today, yet here they are. Just because people feel that the Civil War is some special exception because it includes the subject slavery, does not mean all the others should too be forgotten in time to come. None of them should.

Unfortunately, I cannot and will not surrender my stance on this. No monument, statue, relic, site or the like deserves destruction. They all equally deserve their place as tools to be learned from and things to be remembered, regardless of who they represent or why. People just need to cease being offended over everything and get back to life.

D&D 5e - Hoard of the Dragon Queen

The years, countless years really, of tracking through the wilds seemed to have found a place here for them, one that led them to the doorstep of their foes. Ill prepared foes, more specifically, another blessing they had secured from on high almost assuredly. The men and scaled vermin outnumbered them greatly, but the huntsman was none too concerned with that; they tended to crumple under the rage of the great blade and arrows rained upon them, ignoring the fact that he was not alone in inflicting those ends either.

Brannor's fingers plucked an arrow from the leather quiver that rest under the cloak and knocked an arrow. It was no war quiver, the type on one carried at the hip, but it was certainly an outdoorsman. He planned to kill them as he would any other hunted quarry - at the tip of an arrow from somewhere they did not see. Although, before he so committed, he commented to his company wisely in a hushed voice for added certainty. Foiling their surprise now would help no one, not even the enemy, whose death it would prolong needlessly.

"Orchid and I will flank."

He looked to the half-blood and motioned with his head, wanting to ensure the enemy would be so distracted by the bear that set off toward them that they would not immediately notice enemies to their side. Before there was any other time to act or call to action, it seemed the druid was off - off and away from the other pair of halfling and wood elf. Now they were committed, especially given that even as a bear, they could not allow Torus to fight the enemy alone. All Brannor hoped as he began his own pace, bow low and at the ready, was that they would take to the distraction.

Once the orc and he fell in from another angle, the enemy was all but assured added casualty.

Rolls

Brannor rolls an initiative check of 10 as combat seem imminent the moment Torus' charge is discovered. He will attempt to strike out and around from a side rather than follow Torus directly into battle, hoping Orchid will join him and that the distraction will allow them the element of surprise.

@Hekazu@Ryonara@Lucius Cypher@Gordian Nought@Norschtalen

Bloody Roar [Fighting Game-Style RP - Always Accepting!]

@Holy Soldier, it has been edited.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Penny, @Smash

I am not defending Confederates explicitly. The mindset means nothing to me, but the act of destruction does. Instead of taking the time to point out the flaws of history, educate people, visit these monuments, these battlegrounds, these tombs, and speak on the facts of them, they have taken the coward's path. They would rather just destroy and bury the past than look to it to learn how we have failed or succeeded. It matters nothing, not one ounce, how recent any of these things are because they are symbols. You can look to them to better understand not only the people who erected them, but also what they mean.

The term "slippery slope" has all but been forgotten in our time because we are into it so deep we can no longer realize how much further we are plunging. We can no longer see the hole, only the darkness of it.

Without being poetic, what do I mean? I mean that once you start down this road there is little coming back. Should we now tear down the Great Pyramids because the culture who made them abused and exploited slaves and worshipped a "heathen" pantheon? Is the Washington Monument now suddenly offensive too? What about the fact it was commemorated and commissioned long after George Washington was physically relevant? Should we consider how offensive the Vietnam Memorial might be to the Vietnamese? Is the Lincoln Memorial any less important to history because it does not accurately portray the man?

It has nothing to do with supporting "Southern pride" or the Confederacy. I am a Westerner, where the whole concept of North and South as ideals are alien. They are not my culture or have any real relevance to me as an individual.

The real issue, the very heart of my objection is that this is a meaningless gesture. It is pandering and slumming to people who, up until recently, had no real issue with these statues or their symbols. It has only become a matter of political convenience and social justice to focus on them. It is destroying far more than anything it is creating.

@Skepic

I have to agree from a martial standpoint that the destruction and domination of the Confederacy by the Union would have been the best choice if that had been the goal. But this was never the goal, not even from the start. An intellectual man could tell you that defeating and destroying your enemy down to their identity is the most intelligent option, but a wise man would tell you reconciliation and the reunion is more important.

Hindsight will forever be in the favor of those in the future, but the objective was not to defeat and control the Southern states and their rebels. It was more important to the people of the time to reunite the United States, a philosophy by which I abide. It was a classical example of Americans waging war on a moral matter rather than a factual matter. We have done this time and time again throughout history, with recent history proving this best; it would have been strongly in American favor if we had completely dominated Afghanistan and Iraq and destroyed not only the enemy, but it's sympathizers. We do fight in such a manner though; it is not our battle identity.

However, we as the United States do not wage that war. Especially not when the President at the time was assassinated and his message, emphasis and objective was to reunite. It made it a just war then in the eyes of the public, who then largely wanted to see his message carried out. His death convinced more that he was speaking the truth. It is in part the reason Abraham Lincoln is so martyred now.

The recency of the topic has no meaning to me. In many ways, even with that motive, history has proven who is right. Did they erect those monuments as a way to combat the Civil Rights Movement? Very likely, the time frame and rationale of being a "good rebel" suggest it. But who won that war? The American people, again. If anything it stands as good testament to the character of the nation.

We should focus not on the destruction of what we find offensive, rather we should focus on the constructive, such as bettering our historical education and dedication to the National Parks and Historical Sites of the country. The majority of the nation agrees, even with that Left-leaning poll's inherent bias.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Thank you, @Dynamo Frokane. I was largely referring to the usual stereotype of "I have black friends, so that makes me not racist.", in which is often leveraged against anyone to the right of the Left. Because as we can clearly tell, Charles Barkley is absolutely a black white supremacist. Humor aside, I feel no real need to specifically defend myself, but I will pull from the lexicon as examples of why I am not when challenged as I have been before; this was not one of those times. Either way, I appreciate your understanding of my approach.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@Dynamo Frokane, I am not sure what it is you are asking of me. If you are asking me how I feel about the video, then the best way to describe it would be that I do not feel as though my ethos is affronted or some how in danger. I still believe in equal opportunity, the mindset of being "color blind", prioritizing Americans first, and the so mocked "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", as well as any other element of my mantra I have displayed here and beyond into reality. I am not allegiant to anything beyond that. I do not belong to the Right, "Alt-Right", or Alt-Right, but I have been pushed far into that realm rather than my true place just right of center because the Left has gone so far in the opposite direction; the system of measurement has changed, not my actual position.

Charles Barkley is not just some convenient in to use as "proof I am not racist". I see no issue with anything the man said in this video and now he has come under attack by the same people who have attacked me because I do not believe in the United States being unequal or anyone having the nebulous "privilege" that is talked about.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I suppose then that we might as well throw out the entirety of the Reconstruction Era as well, because to hell with reconciling the nation's wounds of war, the terrible losses of life, the reunion of North and South, and that the Confederates were not all diabolical, racist monsters whose only objective was to "Protect their property." from the Northerners. It is not as though we did this again later with others who fought the United States in much larger, more violent, horrific wars and had far more evil principalities that people to this very day harp on.

Let us just bury it all to maybe make a few people feel better about themselves.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

George Santayana

Just because it is an unpleasant part of history does not mean it should neglected in memory or honored, no less the fact that it might well be "more recent" than the past it is attributed to does not mean it should be discredited. If we were to act by those standards, many other monuments and sites we consider historical now would be equally "meaningless". You do not erect a statue to educate as you would a formal class, which is amusing enough because the education system in the United States from childhood format up to college education is laughable, but because it is a symbol of that history.

Should we destroy the Balto statue because the dog in question wasn't actually the hero of Nome? Should the Lenin statue of Seattle be toppled because the man and his ideology has killed millions of people and are a reminder of that? Most any excuse can be invented if one tries hard enough; some have better logic and rationale than others. The Confederate monuments' destruction or removal? Not so much. People would be better off going about with their lives as they have been for many, many years until now.

One can cry "Racism!" until they are blue in the face, but the Civil War had less to do with race or slavery and significantly more with political differences, the economy and American expansion, states rights and federal rights, and ultimately the perceived fear following the election of a President.