Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dion
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Dion JIHAD CHIQUE ® / NOT THE SHIT, DEFINITELY A FART

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providr.com/teens-killed-robbing-hous…
Three teenagers, ages 18, 17, and 16 respectively broke into someone's home to rob them. After discovering them in the act and 'exchanging words,' the home-owner gunned all three boys down. Thoughts?


It's a risk of the trade. The boys didn't need to die, and it's easy to critique the guy for shooting them, but then those guys also didn't have any reason to be in there, so that's their own fault.

If you grow up in a place where burglars (especially those that are armed) can legally get shot, you should know that that is the case. If you still decide to enter someone elses house, that must mean you accept that risk. It just so happened in this case that the risk occurred. Yeah, he probably didn't have to shoot all three, but he did. It's easy to say it's excessive from a distance but if that were your home and your son that made that decision when he was threatened by 3 strangers in his house, I think you'd say it was not excessive at all.

I'd probably have shot all of them too, just because 1v3, it's real easy to rush someone and get rid of the gun all together. In those situations, you're better off safe than sorry, and if that means shooting all three, then that means shooting all three. It's hard to feel sorry for those three kids or their family. If anything I feel sorry for that guy that shot them. He's probably got a lot of baggage to deal with now too.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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providr.com/teens-killed-robbing-hous…
Three teenagers, ages 18, 17, and 16 respectively broke into someone's home to rob them. After discovering them in the act and 'exchanging words,' the home-owner gunned all three boys down. Thoughts?


Age is not a significant enough factor in home intrusion scenarios; any of those killed persons could have been more armed themselves. This is reactionary thinking and the best way to say it is, "Hindsight is twenty-twenty." Anyone and everyone can play the "armchair quarterback" as I have heard it phrase - do not mind me, I know nothing of sports or why people obsess over them - but it is entirely accurate. This act of self defense should only be held to the standard of objective reasonableness, meaning that in the eyes of the shooter, was the shooting justified at the time. In the case of law, this is very justified; use of deadly force is authorized for homeowners in this state, plain as day.

Is it unfortunate people died? Of course, but these "boys", one of whom was a man, two of whom were about to be, made their choices. They chose poorly in life and more than anything I am thankful that the owners of the home were not raped, assaulted or murdered.

I would not have chosen differently if it were me in place of the defender.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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Two posts in a row, but who cares at this rate? On and off again between devices.

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I've worked in systems that provide high quality healthcare to millions without bankrupting them. That make it possible to get real care rather than cluttering up the ERs with non critical patients, that save thousands of lives every single year. That is my sample size of one.

The VA is shit? You had a terrible experience? I am sorry for you, but even near perfect systems have malpractice and incompetence. You think the US can't do better than it currently does? That is conservative BS. You want to sit around and whine that it can't be done? That is your right but I will be out there advocating for a better system for my patients.

I will pose a contrary question then. Can you name one positive statistic overall from the Department of Veteran's Affairs' medical coverage, other than the fact it at all exists? I mean something consistent and measurable that does not fall into this story of loathing? I have never, not once in my life, met a veteran or service member who did not encounter tremendous difficulty - notably waiting times and quality of care - with the Department of Veteran's Affairs. I have instead heard many stories of them living purposefully outside of coverage by the hospital so they are forced to get referrals to practitioners who are private sector in order to get better care.

And I think that affordable healthcare is a good thing.

I certainly wouldn't call it "affordable". There is a significant issue with the current model that does not bode well for any future one theorized. At the very least, it is an ugly reality of what social programs actually do to those involved in them; cripple them when they are already asking for mercy. Why not simply let them browse the market and choose if they even want insurance at all? If they willingly go uninsured, they pay for it themselves at their own peril.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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Alternative for Germany placed third in the pols with 13-ish percent of the vote.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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I will pose a contrary question then. Can you name one positive statistic overall from the Department of Veteran's Affairs' medical coverage, other than the fact it at all exists? I mean something consistent and measurable that does not fall into this story of loathing? I have never, not once in my life, met a veteran or service member who did not encounter tremendous difficulty - notably waiting times and quality of care - with the Department of Veteran's Affairs. I have instead heard many stories of them living purposefully outside of coverage by the hospital so they are forced to get referrals to practitioners who are private sector in order to get better care.


I've never had anything to do with the VA. I'm willing to take your word for it that the system dosen't work as currently constituted.

Ok just got home and haven’t had a chance to do any research but I’m going to go ahead and assume that everything you have told me and everything I’ve heard in the media is true. Also the goal of this is to fix the VA rather than provide true universal healthcare for non veterans. For the sake of simplicity im going to use veterans as a catchall rather than continually differentiating for dependents, tri care, ect.


Step 1: Hire me at a cost of 0.1 F35s a year.

Step 2: Transmute VA benefits/Tricare into the equivalent of full coverage private insurance at 100% reimbursement and no co pay. Reimburse this in the same way as private insurance rather than the medicare model, I understand why medicare works the way it does, but it is going to be counterproductive in this particular interest. In the short term this will lead to over-billing but the primary goal is to make veterans a preferred class of patient. In addition to traditional reimbursement attach a bonus to all care provided to veterans. It need not necessarily be a huge bonus in absolute terms.

Step 3: Remove all restrictions on where VA insurance can be used and give the patient absolute freedom to seek care where it makes sense for them to do so. America has a strength in the private healthcare sector and that should be leveraged. There is no reason that ancillary services such as blood work, imaging ect need to be done at va facilities and many therapies and procedures will make more sense to administer through existing private or state facilities rather than at dedicated VA sites. Private/State providers and facilities would collect the aforementioned bonus. If a veteran had the work done at a VA facility it could be returned to them, perhaps via a tax credit. This means it is in the veterans interest to use the VA when it makes sense and it encourages private providers to take on veterans.

Step 4: Establish additional federal incentives (again perhaps tax incentives) to take part in voluntary Federal programs for providers who service large (in relative terms) numbers of VA insured patients. This would also require additional federal oversight to ensure the absence of fraud and the quality of service and patient outcomes.

Step 5: Gut the existing VA establishment. As I understand it the President has given authority to terminate senior VA officials with cause. This should be expanded and they should go through with a hatchet and clean out the incompetent. Those who did stuff like falsify wait times and neglect patients should be punished to the full extent of the law. There is no excuse for the sorts criminal negligence I have heard reported. I’m not assigning guilt but sunlight is the best disinfectant and examples need to be made where deliberate neglect or malpractice exists.

Step 6: Restructure actual VA facilities to be more closely focused on the types of procedures which existing providers are ill equipped to handle but are needed by VA patients in disproportionate volume. Physical therapy for battle injuries, PTSD treatment ect ect. Existing facilities should function better once the private and state system takes of some of the burden.

Step 7: Replace federal employees with contractors and enforce oversight. As I understand it it is way easier to remove a contractor than a traditional federal employee. Set clear and achievable goals for categories such as patient care standards/weight times ect.

Step 8: Give broad policy direction responsibility to regional and/or facility directors to address the specific demands of given regions. Obviously coordinating care in Alaska presents different challenges to doing so in the Boston Metro and doctors and administrators should have the freedom to address them. They would also be operating within clear metrics and subject to review and eventual removal if they aren’t able to deliver.

Step 9: Plan for the future. Build new hospitals. Improve scholarships for veterans and perhaps others who are willing to commit to long return of service obligations for the VA. Set up a reviewing body with the explicit goal of ensuring that admin costs are held in check and that resources are focused on patient/caregiver interaction, rather than pushing paper.

In overall terms this will shift current VA patients into the private system. That will make private medical providers happy and shouldn’t threaten the medical insurance lobby as it dosen’t take money directly from their pockets (not yet anyway). It will hopefully clear the current glut of patients and allow the current facilities to function well enough to allow restructuring. It should be palatable enough to the states as it would be proposed by a Republican administration and there is a wellspring of political capital to be gained in both aiding veterans and in addressing the VA scandal that can be pinned on the previous administration. There is a question as to whether putting so many veterans into the public system will stress capacity. I don’t personally believe so but that isn’t exactly my area of expertise.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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Andreyich AS THOUGH A THOUSAND MOUTHS CRY OUT IN PAIN

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Step 1: Hire me at a cost of 0.1 F35s a year

Gotcha! I'll do the exact same thing for 0.099999999.... F35s and pocket the money myself!
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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<Snipped quote>
Gotcha! I'll do the exact same thing for 0.099999999.... F35s and pocket the money myself!


Nonsense I'll get it as a diversity hire!

Damnit that made me laugh :P
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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Affirmative action strikes again, REEEEEEE
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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*nine-step plan*


....you sure you're not a republican? That's eerily similar to the Koch Brothers plan. I say "eerily" only because that's honestly not the direction I expected you to go.

Most of what you're proposing is great, at least in concept. Some of the problems aren't your fault -- step three, for instance, couldn't be done without compulsory participation by private providers at the moment thanks to the VA and Choice (and Congress in general) and their track record. Let's assume step 4 clears that up over time and ignore it entirely. We have to start thinking about the costs at some point but hey, I'm rationally self-interested (plus I think those combat vets deserve it for SURE), so whatevs. Step 9 is a bit of old-VA thinking -- if this works, we don't need more VA hospitals, right? But again -- erring on the side of taking care of people. I'm not gonna make a fuss.

In short -- this here is a radical, big-concept reform. Even comes with instructions on how to pass it (I'm not sure those are sure-fire, because David Schulkin, Trump's pick for VA chief, was also Obama's pick -- but in fact Shulkin's about to propose something like this, if The Hill is to be believed, so I guess you're onto something).

Anyway. I'll take it.

Now for my end of the bargain. What are your thoughts on universal healthcare in the US?
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Wish I knew Healthcare jargon. Might need to look this shit up at some point.
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What are your thoughts on universal healthcare in the US?


Health Insurance is not a right. It is a luxury. If you can't afford a luxury you don't deserve it. Get a second job or a job that has health insurance as a benefit.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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<Snipped quote by mdk>

Health Insurance is not a right. It is a luxury. If you can't afford a luxury you don't deserve it. Get a second job or a job that has health insurance as a benefit.


Can't tell if this is legit
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Burning Kitty
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<Snipped quote by Burning Kitty>

Can't tell if this is legit


If you want something pay for it or trade a smaller paycheck for it, don't expect others to give it to you for free at the expense of others because you aren't intelligent enough to figure out a way to pay for it yourself.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Burning Kitty
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providr.com/teens-killed-robbing-hous…
Three teenagers, ages 18, 17, and 16 respectively broke into someone's home to rob them. After discovering them in the act and 'exchanging words,' the home-owner gunned all three boys down. Thoughts?


Three less morons in the world. Absolutely no loss. They would have would ended up as leeches sucking off the teet of the taxpayers.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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I can tell tonight's going to be a colorful one for the thread.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by IceHeart
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The worst thing about that article with the three kids getting killed is that it tries to make the kids seem like less of a threat because the only weapon they had was brass knuckles. I don't know about you, but there is only one real reason why anyway invading a house would have a pair of brass knuckles, obviously so they could use em if necessary. I see anyone with brass knuckles, you can bet I'd take them down from as far away as possible so as not to get my brains beaten out.

Also with a three on one scenario, even if they didn't have any weapons you could still easily get severely beaten or even killed in such a fight. A gun is a powerful weapon but doesn't mean jack if they can get to you before you can fire, there was no way the gun user could even think about trying to just shoot one in such close quarters, since any one of those guys, especially with brass knuckles, would have a good chance to kill him otherwise.


As for Universal Healthcare, basically it comes down to logistics. Some places have decent 'universal-ish' healthcare, but usually in that case, wait times can be too long to effectively help the people who need it. How money and resources is distributed in healthcare becomes a major issue as well, especially if the universal healthcare tries to care for patients with very rare illnesses that are extreme outliers on the normal medical market. How much goes toward general care? Intensive care? Experimental Procedures? Research? Etc.

The sad truth is that any healthcare system that tries to be Universal very quickly becomes bogged down with trying to do too much all at one time. One of the main things being not enough medical personal to go around to see to everyone's needs, especially more 'minor' issues that might have to be ignored altogether to make way for more critical patients. Red tape quickly becomes the bane of the industry and the people who want medical services suffer because of it.

Anyway, the US is way to large and unwieldy a place to try and put in a Universal Healthcare System. It would be much easier for each state to create plans based on their own special circumstances, though even then I'm sure quite a few towns and provinces would still have their own problems. Medical needs are different depending on where you go in the US.

The best Universal Healthcare anyone can invest in is to live healthfully and to try and prevent problems from happening in the first place. Preventative care is best care. Medical care is there for when you need it due to circumstances outside of your control.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

If you want something pay for it or trade a smaller paycheck for it, don't expect others to give it to you for free at the expense of others because you aren't intelligent enough to figure out a way to pay for it yourself.

What if you're disabled and what little neetbux the government provides aren't sufficient?
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Burning Kitty
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<Snipped quote by Burning Kitty>
What if you're disabled and what little neetbux the government provides aren't sufficient?
Not my problem, tax money should never be used to benefit a single person, only things like infrastructure, military, stuff that benefits everyone. They shouldn't be getting any neetbux in the first place, nothing more than government theft.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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<Snipped quote by Andreyich>Not my problem, tax money should never be used to benefit a single person, only things like infrastructure, military, stuff that benefits everyone. They shouldn't be getting any neetbux in the first place, nothing more than government theft.

So we should let the disabled just rot?
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