Stern Algorithm

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

@Dealdric Wait, so what even is the spell then? Is it in effect whether he signs it or not.

If it is indeed in the form of the contract, I feel that it should be inextricably tied to the magic. Like if Anu's curse jar were to break, Ferron can no longer store curses simply because the 'container is broken but the spell remains'. Either way, he's probably not going to destroy it, but I feel that magical contracts in any form should be within Gammaton's jurisdiction. Such as how the GM ruled that Ragnagedon's destruction trumped Dirka's destruction magic. Multi-use tool, but not as potent.

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

@Stern Algorithm

<Snipped quote by Stern Algorithm>

But the thing is that unless they chat and get to know Gam', most will assume that the laws he writes will be rigid, given that the first thing that comes to mind when they hear "Law" is a rigid system that doesn't always do good for all of the times it intends to do good. Like with what was mentioned in his conversation with Iva, it's hard to write a set of laws that can't be abused by someone who wants to minimise risks and maximize gains. Doesn't mean it isn't possible, just that it's uncommon and poorly represented within the idea of law itself.
After all, the only point of reference most gods would have for understanding law would be humans themselves, and I'm pretty sure most human laws present are fairly rigid right now.

@Stabby

What you stated defines 'jumping to conclusions'. Also, the humans in the world still live in tribes, so human law is at its infancy, and hasn't developed into anything even remotely totalitarian. Based on his actions, all he's done is try to negotiate rather than dominate. So I'm giving people the opportunity to chat and get to know him. I just feel that given what information is currently available in the game, this degree of aversion is unwarranted. The reason I brought up metagaming it because it can be perceived as if player bias and player knowledge is influencing character behavior.

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

@Dealdric

The GA is also just to set enough laws to keep the gods alive. I think the problem is, having not given Gammaton a chance to truly speak his mind, Dirka doesn't even know what Gammaton's ideals are to be able to hate them.

But by presenting it in the form of a contract, I think it falls into the realm of law, especially since signing it or not signing it changes the ramifications. I would count this as a situation where Dirka accidentally plays into Gammaton's court. By creating it in contract form in order to spite him, she has inadvertently put it firmly in his realm. But I still need to know what not signing the contract means. If not signing it doesn't change anything, he won't destroy it. Would she trust him more if he does the stupid thing and signs it? That doesn't make sense because it means acknowledging her as his enemy, which is precisely what he is trying to avoid. If he signs it, it allows her to restrict his choices, which is precisely what she said she didn't want to do because "she's not him".

As for what @Stabby said, people keep jumping to the conclusion that Gammaton's laws are going to be rigid. Yes, he may be OCD and desire order in his heart, it's not what he's going to act upon. And are Anu and Dirka promoting war between gods or between mortals/humans?

As for the harsh language, I used the word 'metagaming'. I know some people bristle at the accusation since it's kind of a 'bad word' on the Guild. But again, I bring it up as a way to technically distinguish Dirka's actions from what I incorrectly perceived to be 'player whimsy'.

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

@Rune_Alchemist @Dealdric

Right, but from the beginning, the GM shot down my ambiton to being god of order. The GA is not the formation of a new government, just a 'please sit down while I tell you something', followed by a 'and if you think that thing I just told you is important let's all agree to some basic ground rules so the most important things to us can be protected'. It is a lot more democratic and hands off than I think a lot of people are assuming. Gammaton has no delusions of actually ruling over his siblings with an iron fist. Skirmishes and harsh words would continue but the most sacred things to each of the gods would be protected. It would just be a safer status quo. But by categorically ignoring every plea, Dirka has no way to find this out.

And I understand that she's mad, but it really doesn't make sense that nothing he's offered is even the least bit tempting. Unknown knowledge concerning threats to the gods? Absolute honesty for the duration of a conversation? The second one at least should move even the most stubborn heart, and even someone who was heartless would jump at it for the opportunity to exploit someone. I just feel that Dirka's opposition has gone beyond the excuses of madness or differences in principle, to the point that I thought, incorrectly, that I was being snubbed personally as a player. I've seen her grab at advantageous opportunities before, so she's clearly rational in the things she wants. She even makes deals with others. And when she teaches magic, she teaches that magic has rules. She knows that without rules, her followers would be blowing themselves up with their spells. She sees that rules have a place.

Anyways, I'll lay off, but I just want to point out that the most basic games have you solving every obstacle with violence. Better games, whether they be RPGs, open world, or even conquest games, give more options for solving obstacles through non-violent means. I don't want to play a game where a nonviolent solution is irrationally impossible. You can make it extremely difficult, but I want to know that the probability of success exists. I've little interest in scrambling for divine cords or building armies, since that is not the build that I am going for. Will you at least say that it is possible later in the RP if things work out after the GA, thst another god might be able to convince Dirka? For example, the GA offers protection to Sveiand's lovers. This should interest Dirka who has a lover of her own, and may seek to protect him from the likes of Hyperion.

One last point. The contract. Does the contract, if signed, actually force Gammaton to believe that he's at fault? Or is he merely a knowledging that he has done 'something' wrong? I don't think thoughts of other gods can be forced, not even through magic. And one cannot admit guilt to an unknown crime. What is the crime? Existing? You also said, "if she does anything based on what the contract has her do". What actions would fall under this category? And finally, what happens if Gammaton doesn't sign the contract? Will you permit that as the god of Law, Gammaton has the ability to analyze the full legal ramifications of the contract and the ability to void and nullify the contract if he finds it faulty, thus rendering any consequence of signing or not signing moot? Other than Dirka's anger at him, he can't prevent that since that is true regardless.

EDIT: Sorry if things got heated and if I used some unnecessarily harsh language. Also, thanks for taking the time to engage with me and explain.

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

@Dealdric

Ok, so Dirka said Gammaton could questions about the contract she wrote for him.

Should I ask you IC or OOC?

Because the contract really is so poorly written that I really have no idea what happens if Gammaton signs it or doesn't sign it. I also feel that Dirka is being too unreasonable. Yeah, I get it, goddess of emotion and whimsy and all that, but why does she hate Gammaton who has literally done nothing? Or is she just THAT afraid of being manipulated by him? And wouldn't it be in her best interest to at least hear him out and extract information from him? She has things she wants to protect, getting pissy at Ragnagedon for attacking her dragon and such, so she behaves rationally for the most part, except when you as a player, decides she doesn't, which feels inconsistent, or meta-gaming, especially since Gammaton's supposed threat level comes only from OOC suspicion, (him having literally done zip IC). I mean, she's not Deadpool (TM) for crying out loud. Heck, even The Joker (TM) can be negotiated with. I just want to know so I can determine if I should stop wasting time trying to make sense of the character or not.

Or does she need to see the benefits of Gammaton's proposed system before she will consider joining? Is there anyway way she can at least be negotiated with, or are you, as a player, just obstinate?

Is there another god Gammaton that has to go through first? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little frustrated. Throw me a bone here. This is supposed to be collaborative storytelling.

EDIT: Sorry, I am actually frustrated, but I hope I don't come off as offensive. My criticisms are meant to be 'technical' not personal.

Hey There, Kid! - Digimon Adventure 01-Themed Roleplay

Ishaq

---

Ishaq stood on the water's edge watching the other kids play in the water. He sighed. As one of the older kids, Ishaq 'felt responsible' for making sure everyone stayed safe. He had told the camp chaperones as much. He stood there in his swim trunks, his shirt removed so he wouldn't need to take anything off in case he needed to jump in and save someone. By God, he hated standing there without a shirt. He hated the fact that he was a little pudgy, he hated the feeling of being...exposed. He hated this camp. It was hard enough keeping up appearances for people he had to deal with on a regular basis, but now he was keeping up appearances for total strangers, people he would never see again once this camp was over.

He didn't hate the other kids, per se, and if anything, many of them probably liked him for the helpfulness and reliability he exuded. He looked over to Conrad, sitting by himself on dry land. This behavior irked Ishaq. As the responsible 'older child', Ishaq was expected to approach Conrad, ask him what was wrong and why he wasn't playing with the others. Was Conrad being bullied? Just having a bad day? Sick? "God I hate kids. What a pain," Ishaq thought to himself. Honestly, Ishaq just wanted to give the mopey kid some space, and was having a conundrum trying to figure out was was 'expected of him'. Fortunately, he was pulled out of his annoyed introspection by...bad weather? "Alright everyone!" Ishaq called out, parroting the adults, "Weather's looking a little strange. We should dry off and head back to the cabins."

Yet as they headed back, it became apparent that this was no storm. Ishaq had lagged behind to 'make sure everyone was accounted for', so he saw the light come down from the sky towards each of the kids, including himself. He wondered for a moment if they were being struck by meteors. Then he realized for a sickening moment that he didn't care for the safety of the others, and that he should. yet he didn't have to think about it, since it seems the streaks of light were harmless, instead depositing a device into his palm. he inspected it cynically, wondering if this was some sick prank from the camp leaders, but as he looked at the device, he felt...naked and raw. Then he felt the weightlessness as he was pulled upwards. Before the panic had fully set in, a disorienting light engulfed him.

Ishaq lay there in an unfamiliar space. For a fleeting moment, he wondered if he was alone; a liberating thought. But then he heard Conrad's scared question. Ishaq groaned and stood up, patting himself off, and 'remained calm'.

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

@Leotamer - The aura affects plants too. It makes them bigger, more powerful. That's not to mention the longer he spends in the aura the closer he comes to changing to the Plant domain.

@A Lowly Wretch

Not really sure I look forward to seeing Hayim go from smol to swole

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

@Lmpkio @Lord Zee

Please do not make Diablo-style Nephalem

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

One last shot

Tabrasa\- Born of Chaos.

Gammaton

---

@Dealdric @Rune_Alchemist

Gammaton balked at Dirka's immolation of the contract. He had, after all, exposed himself to her willingly in good faith, only to have the gesture thrown back in his face. As she left the room, he read her contract, then re-read it. Poorly written, the terms were unclear. Furious, he made to crumple it, but held himself back, deciding instead to roll it up and tuck it beneath his shell; after all, contracts were sacred and not to be mistreated. At a loss for words and fuming, Gammaton behaved uncharacteristically. He flipped the massive table in anger and cast a spell, "Speaker of the House", which allowed his voice to carry throughout the building, or at least insofar as Iva'Krorh would allow such an innocuous spell to travel in his realm.

"DIRKA! SISTER!" Gammaton called out, dropping formality and making an...emotional plea, "Why do you hate me so? What have I done to earn your ire? If it's the flies, then I apologize! Neither Iva'Krorh nor I have control of their movements. They go where they will to survive, and I use them only to check the goings on of the mortals. Make as many countermeasures as you want against them! I can share their vision with you if Iva agrees and if that is your desire!

Or is it my very nature that you despise? I have always respected you sister, for does not magic have its contracts? Does not magic follow its own laws? We are like two sides of the same coin, but I am the lesser for magic is divine and belongs to the realm of gods, but law is mundane and belongs to the realm of the mortals.

Do you think me like Brother Hyperion? No, but Brother Hyperion is blinded by his own light. Do you think I seek order? I seek balance, for is law not the contractual balance between the few (order) and the many (chaos)? There is chaos in order and there is order in chaos. I believed that such contradictions would be pleasing to you.

Or perhaps it is my grasping for power? Yes, I admit that I am trying to acquire power, but power is but a means. All of us gods have desires, especially the desire to protect, whether that be our creations or the mortals we choose to favor, and we need power to protect. But my goal is nothing more than the protection of us gods from forces we do not understand that threaten our very existence! Please, sister! At least hear me out! At least let me explain to you that which threatens us before you snub me!"

Gammaton stood among the newly exacerbated mess, his abdomen pulsed very quickly, a sign of his heavy breathing. If he had hair on his head it would be disheveled. He listened numbly as Iva began to shoo him out of the Library.

"A-apologies, Honorable Iva'Krorh," Gammaton said, calming slightly, "I will...vacate the premises." Gammaton made to leave, but handed Iva a summons scroll and a spine from his back."Please sign it in your own time. You have nothing to lose from attending."