Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our roleplay annoyances 2.0

[mickilennial]

This. I largely prefer doing this with a good partner/set of partner (s) over having to fill in a CS. Is it because I'm lazy, or that I hate CS's or I don't want to characterise my OCs? Nooooo!

But rather because I hate being obligated to stick to that character sheet precisely, for the entire duration of the RP. Especially those ones where they demand multi-para personalities. It's all very well and good to summarize a characters thoughts and beliefs but if I have to spell out every single aspect in several paragraphs then I often find myself purple prosing for the sake of length/word count and that is quite...painful, for lack of a better term. I am then also restricted to having that character only act that way because that's what is in the bio/CS....What about character growth during the RP which then changes the way my character acts and perceives the world through events they have been through with or without their companions? There's less freedom to do that I feel, when you have to keep to what you've put in the CS.

I prefer to give a brief summary, such as a list of a few traits and maybe a few sentences to a paragraph that summarises how the traits come together to form their personality, and then let them speak for themselves in the IC. A lack of CS or lack of detail in a bio does not always equal a lackluster author or a lack of thought into the character. Sometimes it's just more fun to let things unfold as the RP goes. Where would all the fun be if I revealed to you their entire back story before it came up in the IC? it takes away half the excitement because it takes away the "shock" factor of me revealing something IC that you weren't expecting because you already knew it would happen when I had to reveal it in the CS.

@The Elvenqueen

Character Sheets with proven, trusted partners just serve as a info-dump. It’s a fun time.

As for your point [in purple], I have noticed people on this website who have great CS's but are utterly lazy or bad when it comes to their IC posts. As a GM that feels inappropriate and gives the impression that either you don't care once you're in a RP or that you can feign competence on a whim. So you are completely right in that a good CS does not mean a good writer and the inverse.

[The Elvenqueen]

<Snipped quote by The Elvenqueen>
Character Sheets with proven, trusted partners just serve as a info-dump. It’s a fun time.

@Inkarnate

Precisely. It's an organisational tool rather than something that restricts your character to a certain thing in that case. A way to keep track of perhaps where they have been, who they have met and skills/abilities they have learned while IC for instance. C:

[Dion]

<Snipped quote by Inkarnate>

Precisely. It's an organisational tool rather than something that restricts your character to a certain thing in that case. A way to keep track of perhaps where they have been, who they have met and skills/abilities they have learned while IC for instance. C:

@The Elvenqueen

However in group RP's it's the exact opposite for me. It's not really an info dump - as a GM, I could care less about your character sheet and the info in it as long as it makes sense and fits the world. And that leads it into the next point - it's both a proof of concept for a character fitting the world as well AND the writer being capable of, yknow, stringing more than 2 sentences together in a good way.

With trusted partners it's less about that and more about infodump, but in group RP, not really.

[The Elvenqueen]

@Buddha This is also true. I'm not saying that sheets suck and nobody should use them at all of course, just that more paragraphs isn't always better. I appreciate that as a GM it can be useful for gauging a person's writing abilities but personally I just think there are better ways to achieve that (asking for links to writing samples from other RPs, or even providing a mandatory prompt which the person must write a response to as their character/from the character's point of view, for instance) than asking people to purple prose 2-3 paragraphs in a section like personality which in most cases (but not all, I also acknowledge) works better as a "show, not tell" thing c:

[Dervish]

My two cents on personality sections, I don't think I've had a character sheet go into IC and turn out exactly like the personality field was written as. I find that your initial ideas tend to warp a bit as you encounter in-character interactions and events and your characters evolve in unexpected ways as a result.

[Dion]

@The Elvenqueen asking for a sample post always feels strange to me but I can see where you're coming from yes.

[NuttsnBolts]

@The Elvenqueen asking for a sample post always feels strange to me but I can see where you're coming from yes.

@Buddha

There was one time I remember in an RP where we couldn't quite pin point it but the players writing seemed off in the character sheet. It just didn't seem to flow correctly. We ended up looking through his post history and found an old roleplay post to read.

Sure enough, that didn't flow well either and we understood that the person didn't know how to use their grammar correctly as they used too many full stops and the sentences were disjointed.

So I'm a bit on the fence about asking for samples. I feel that it can sometimes appear a bit too inquisitive and judgmental, but at the same time it helps filter out the good from the bad.

[Dion]

@NuttsnBolts I think that if you're gonna ask for a sample you could also just take that extra 2 seconds and read post history regardless.

I mean even if I was given a sample, I'd still read post history to see if they flaked out or if they are annoying. So...

[BrokenPromise]

I don't ask for sample posts. People are always quick to give you their best writing. Instead, look through their post history yourself. Not only will you get a better idea of how they write, but you can see how frequently they drop roleplays, how well they get along with others, etc.

EDIT: Budda beat me to it.

[SleepingSilence]

Doing CS work is sort of necessary for a multitude of reasons. Similar to how school classes in general is beneficial for a job, the actual skills themselves will almost never actually help you in your job's field. However, it shows your future "employer" that you had the determination to finish it.

Which is pretty much the only reason I would require the CS. It also helps keep track of your characters, like a mini-cheat sheet. If you're doing a lot of RP's at the same time. (and if it takes you 20 years to make it, you're probably aren't going to be that active when it comes to roleplaying in a group.)

Granted like it's already been stated, a good CS doesn't equal a good roleplayer. Sometimes it just means the person can write. (Some people that do seem to love making CS's more than actually roleplaying, probably should go into writing instead. But I digress.)

But at the very same time. The usual rules and process of making these (at least on this forum) has never actually given me the ability to tell if someone was a good writer or not. And more often than not shows me how unqualified people are to run their own campaign. Making nitpicks that you completely allow for somebody else. Not following you're own written RP rules. Not knowing your own rules. Not writing those rules then bitching because someone was creative and you didn't think of it. <.<

I don't understand the mindset that everyone already has, including it basically being an unwritten rule, that really if you're remotely competent is one of the few rules you need. "The GM has the final say." If you already have all of this power, and people that join shouldn't be stupid enough to not know this. I know so many GM's win arguments in the OOC by going "I win because I have the final say." So why can't these people think outside of the box? And have that mentality in the IC as well.

Why spend a week debating on a power you want to tweak/nerf, that the player doesn't want to or maybe doesn't even know how to effectively? Just start the roleplay, if the player is reaching too far on accident, throw a wrench. If it's on purpose, punish them! You're the GM, act like one! I swear the fact that any RP needs the guild line "don't god-mod plz." only means they don't know how to handle possibly more abnormally powerful characters.

If you join an RP or play D&D, the old rule will always remain. "Don't fuck with the Dungeon Master." So if players have ever role played before, they already understand this. Now all you need to do as a GM, is run you're campaign. You should already have the answers in your head. Sorry, I went off on a tangent. <.<

Oh, while I'm at it. Sample writing is just about the most pointless thing on the face of the earth. (Especially, if they aren't new and already have previous posts.) Please never actually do this if you're running a campaign, you will look pretentious. Nor should you bother writing one if somebody asks you too. You're RPing to have fun. You don't/shouldn't need to write a goddamn resume.

Plus, even if you do. (like an idiot.) You'll just get some jackass to tell you after 3 weeks longer than it should of. "That your 'grammer' is off."

[mickilennial]

Yeah, no. It isn't pointless and a sample post is often a better measure than a lengthy sheet. You attempting to insult every GM who values sample posts is fun and all, but it really is nothing more than a fallacy with a weak fundamental argument. It’s actually more pretentious to elevate your opinions on what is and isn’t valuable in an application for a RP than asking someone to write an in-character post to show competence.

[SleepingSilence]

Yeah, no. It isn't pointless and a sample post is often a better measure than a lengthy sheet. You attempting to insult every GM who values sample posts is fun and all, but it really is nothing more than a fallacy with a weak fundamental argument. It’s actually more pretentious to elevate your opinions on what is and isn’t valuable in an application for a RP than asking someone to write an in-character post to show competence.

@Inkarnate

Lordy lord. Just how I feel and how I see them being used often poorly and by people who aren't particularly intelligent themselves. Usually CS's should suffice as the sample itself. Seriously, why wouldn't it? You don't need to take it as an argument, or call it a fallacy...it's not a political debate. Trying too hard. Not everything is debate worthy. It's called an opinion, in a 'bitchfest' thread. Lighten up. One person's opinion isn't automatically worth "elevating" yourself over their "elevated" thought on a particular subject.

If you use them, in spite of people having perfectly solid CS's AND a back catalog you could check yourself if not unbelievably lazy. Fine, it's just my belief. Coming from no fallacy, but constant personal experience in people who asked for it. I'm bitching about my personal annoyances. >.> I didn't think I had to clarify that since that's the thread's entire point.

Sorry, for biting back. Just seems hypocritical to take somebody's personal view/generalization, and make it a personal thing like it's some sort of attack on you.

If you think they're awesome, fantastic. Isn't any less right or wrong than my opinion. Still stands that I would never bother doing sample writing ever again. From my experience, that's how they all were. <.<

Going with the flow and roleplaying, ya know the best part of it. Is less likely to be the case if you have to take a test beforehand. So yes, again in my opinion. Forcing players to write a CS AND a sample post. (especially if not new/lacking in a back catalog.) Shows that person will likely NOT be able to handle something going wrong or a little different than they're expecting. Because that person is displaying controlling tendencies right off the bat. So it's not just some random insult, it's a preview of the GM's behavior. <.<

[vancexentan]

I'm so bloody sick of my roleplays dying due to player negligence. I am more than readily able to admit when it is my fault when an rp dies (see my rosario vampire roleplays they got pretty boring). However I can't do jack when other people unceremoniously drop the roleplay or literally move it into a dead end when no one else can post because no one can do anything. And I can't post as the bloody gm because I was the second to last person to post rendering me into a spot where I either waste my time with a post that's been forced and may get no replies, or crack open the casing of the current setting to force things along.

[Punished GN]

I would honestly say the necessity of the personality section depends on the RP itself. Running a bad macho-man RP where characters are basically vehicles for the writers to use their preferred power/gun/mech/whatever? Then go ahead and omit it. Or, just break it down into a list of personality traits? Honestly, I used it in my World Warriors RP, and it serves the same purpose as writing out a long paragraph after paragraph. In RPs more focused on the character, I'd say putting a little more effort into your character's personality might work - but, honestly, you can probably do the personality trait list and get the same result, so it's up to preference.

But

Granted like it's already been stated, a good CS doesn't equal a good roleplayer. Sometimes it just means the person can write. (Some people that do seem to love making CS's more than actually roleplaying, probably should go into writing instead. But I digress.)

SleepingSilence

I've never seen a truer statement ever written out on this site.

[Ammokkx]

I'm so bloody sick of my roleplays dying due to player negligence. I am more than readily able to admit when it is my fault when an rp dies (see my rosario vampire roleplays they got pretty boring). However I can't do jack when other people unceremoniously drop the roleplay or literally move it into a dead end when no one else can post because no one can do anything. And I can't post as the bloody gm because I was the second to last person to post rendering me into a spot where I either waste my time with a post that's been forced and may get no replies, or crack open the casing of the current setting to force things along.

@vancexentan

^{_{thisntmyfaultisit}}

[vancexentan]

@AmmokkxNo not you in specific. A lot of my roleplays have died due to one or two people randomly dropping out more or less killing the rp where it stands.

[BrokenPromise]

My policy with starting off rps is to make the goals achievable by all characters. A small change from "Samantha (player character) needs to see the queen" to "A member of the party (any player character) needs to see the queen." It's also important to remain in contact with the people spearheading the group to make sure dead ends are avoided.

And then sometimes you're just unlucky and 80% of your group loses interest.

[vancexentan]

My policy with starting off rps is to make the goals achievable by all characters. A small change from "Samantha (player character) needs to see the queen" to "A member of the party (any player character) needs to see the queen." It's also important to remain in contact with the people spearheading the group to make sure dead ends are avoided.

And then sometimes you're just unlucky and 80% of your group loses interest.

@BrokenPromise

I'll give an example: In my fate/stay roleplay we all start off with one simple goal: Have the characters meet up in the church for 'important news everyone!' in regard to their end goals. They all meet and some can plan. Big battle ensues some distance away. You can leave, or go to the fight. Then the roleplay dies because a third of the people leave and no one wants to post because 'gotta wait for people to post' which quickly grinds things to a halt.

That specific example given context could apply to a multitude of my roleplays. I usually give my players either a place where they can all go or I specifically make something for them. So I'm more or less becoming more cynical the more I see people not post because more than enough of my roleplays have died because people lack the common courtesy of saying 'i'm not interested anymore'

[ArenaSnow]

I wouldn't mind seeing more CS structures that have you write a practical example of your character in action. An IC tidbit, something that gives a degree of insight into the character, and acts to display what they would do better than theoretical static sheets about personality and such.

Personally, I find the ultimate test of if I care about a character or not is if I'm able to use the char in an IC context or not.

[BrokenPromise]

I'll give an example: In my fate/stay roleplay we all start off with one simple goal: Have the characters meet up in the church for 'important news everyone!' in regard to their end goals. They all meet and some can plan. Big battle ensues some distance away. You can leave, or go to the fight. Then the roleplay dies because a third of the people leave and no one wants to post because 'gotta wait for people to post' which quickly grinds things to a halt.

@vancexentan

So you create a space where EVERYONE needs to arrive before the RP starts, and then you leave progression in the hands of the clueless players? I'm being dramatic, but you need that mindset when dealing with players. I'm not going to sugar coat it, I HATE group scenes. Someone can give you ten paragraphs of backstory about their character, but very few players are willing to make choices that affect the rps direction.

Firstly, I'd have started off everyone in the church, save you from having to wait for everyone to make their "I'm ariving!" post. It also enables you to post again without everyone writing their introductions. After that, you're the GM. Nothing quite rocks a player's socks like seeing the GM post out of turn.

Example: My Danganronpa rp. I had eight players (close to 12-14 characters) in a room, and my character was like "So who wants to go exploring?" that week, ONE of the people posted "Sure! I'll go!" Now most people have this perceived idea of a turn order, but communication with 8 people is kinda hard on a forum. The RP should have died right there. But instead, I just wrote my character getting annoyed glares from everyone (My character is a HUGE ass hole) and so they left with just that one person to go exploring. Then magically everyone started posting again. There were discussions in the OOC about who was going to post next, people reminding others to post, it was beautiful. But none of that would have happened if I begrudgingly waited for someone else to post.

I don't like starting out rps with fights, but some options for you would have been to bring the fight to the church, or simply post out of turn like I did. But like I said before, some RPs just die regardless of what you do. I was lucky. I don't think that would have worked if everyone wasn't eager to post.