Lugubrious

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

<Snipped quote by Lugubrious>

I could make a post about defending myself, and blah, blah, blah. But, really, I don't give a crap. So bye.

@KabenSaal

I could tell. Bye.

No need to be needlessly unkind, @Here.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

Just had a spark of an idea-- Priscilla's supposed to be missing, right? What if we pulled a pseudo-Bianca and found her stuck in the Distillery mid-mission?

Don't ask me why she's there though, evil kidnappings and shit.

@HereComesTheSnow

If Hearts is alright with it, it's fine by me.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

<Snipped quote by Lugubrious>

Because what you intended was clear, to you. And clearly a lot of people did understand what you wanted. Some people, who went for something a little different, just misinterpreted the exact parameters. The standards are flawed, but your judging based on them was perfectly fine. It's less that your watch specifically was out of synch, and more that everyone agreed on a time but not everyone's watches were set to the same time. So some people showed up early, some people showed up right on time, and a few people narrowly missed the mark.

A little more clarity for the future would be fantastic. But completely retallying the results (in my opinion) isn't necessary.

@Krayzikk

Hm...

Anyone else have an opinion on retallying the results?

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

<Snipped quote by Lugubrious>

Little of that is what I meant; I've said from the very beginning that I would have chosen very similar winners. Napoli and Gratia were both far and away the best entries into the contest, by my standards and yours. Even my third and fourth place winners would have been similar, were I the judge for the contest.

I never said you were a bad judge, either. In fact I never even said anything about your judgement in this contest. I said something because there was clearly a difference in standards between what you intended and what some people interpreted from the contest descriptor. I only started talking about the standards after the fact because, to be perfectly frank, I was irritated. While you had a very clear idea of what constituted a villain or bad guy in your head, it didn't match up with what the literary definitions were. And since the literary ones were the standards I (and I suspect a few others) had been working off of, it seemed as though my entry was within the parameters of the contest.

It isn't a matter of you being a bad judge, it's a matter of a miscommunication in what the standards for the contest were. If you still want to void the results and reconsider, go right ahead. But that outcome was not my intent, nor do I think it's what Onarax was looking for when he agreed with me. We both had been discussing the literary definitions of villain prior to his agreement, so I think he was endorsing my objections to the standards.

Like I said, it isn't anyone's fault. It's a case of something being lost between intent and interpretation. Hence my original feedback on perhaps being able to define things a little more clearly for the future. And in fairness to PoS, Onarax and I both were missing the last paragraph for a little while. I think the coding that would give his name a mention didn't work, so it tends to blend in with the feedback on other entries.

@Krayzikk

I don't understand how you can maintain that I messed up and miscommunicated my methods but aren't a bad judge because of it, and that the winners wouldn't be any different, and that it's not my fault. If I had better standards and communication, then people would have had a better idea what to expect, and some of the people who I disqualified could have ranked anywhere among the top places. Because of the fault, my results are invalidated. It's like getting mad at people for arriving late to a meeting when it was my watch that was fast.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

Well, screw me then, am I right? If both trusty Kray and the contest winner disagree with my standards (bad standards make a bad judge and make my decisions bad ones) then it's not just one person's malcontent. I mean, forget the idea that I might have preferred those with greater antagonistic force in a story than those with next to none, and that both Grane and Diamond both had shreds of good left in them. Also forget that this RP has been Darker and Edgier since the very beginning. The contest results are now voided; if I get another three hour span free in the next couple of weeks I'll go back and try and sort everything out less 'questionably'. Alternative, someone less questionable could step up to judge the whole contest. Please--be my guest.

@Prince of Seraphs, did you even read the last paragraph in the whole post?

@Kabensaal, when I asked for a post, I specifically mentioned 'effort and intent', both of which your post lacks. If you don't want your character to even leave the room, much less actively interact with the teammate's she's neglected for so long, much much less go on a mission, then the only thing we have to look forward from you is more happy thoughts about Skyra, excuses involving body problems, and Mokuren eventually going and eating someone when she gets hungry only to return to bed. That is not a sufficient affirmation of interest and presence, so I'll be giving the spot you've been occupying for the last age to someone who I know will deliver.

@Princeofhearts, you're called for. Care to introduce yourself?

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

Congratulations to all the winners, and I'm not really surprised by the selections made. You all did a fantastic job. I'd go more in depth, but for about half of you I did that ages ago. =P

That said, I do have a mild objection. I saw several people (I think I counted three, including myself) that were largely disqualified from consideration because they "weren't enough of a bad guy". Now, this might seem a little odd given that the contest was to make a villainous version of our characters... But that's just it. Neither the term "bad guy" nor "villain" actually denote a degree of evil. Even the more detailed aspects of the contest overview didn't provide an indicator of "must be this evil to qualify".

Both villain and bad guy simply refer to the antagonistic force with evil methods of a given work of fiction. In fact, every entry in the entire contest was significantly more evil than every canon RWBY villain. Ben (who I use as an example only because I'm the most familiar with him), by all accounts intended as an Anti-Villain, kills people. There are only two antagonists in RWBY with an existent death tally, and that tally amounts to one person.

I suppose my complaint is that the contest descriptor only really indicated that we should be making the villain of a story, and villains aren't inherently mass murdering mentally unstable people. Mass murdering mentally unstable people qualify, beyond a shadow of a doubt, as villains; but so do characters with goals and personalities that, were it not for their methods, would easily be on the side of the angels.

In the future, it'd be nice if we could know to what degree we're supposed to do something. There are characters with significantly less evil methods that were considered, while some with evil methods but nobler goals weren't deemed villainous enough. It'd be nice to know for the future so I, and others, don't have to default to the generic extreme just so we can be sure we meet the standards.

Because by the definitions given, every entry was villainous. It just seems like there was a metric we were missing.

@Krayzikk

I took the term 'bad guy' as the deciding factor here. To me, bad guy is not debatable; to have bad as the main qualifier, you've got to be doing so much bad that the label envelops the character. This isn't Wreck-it Ralph. To be on the opposing side isn't enough, and to accomplish good things in bad ways is to be degrees of an anti-hero. The reason Grane qualified is because he hasn't accomplished anything good, and it's up to real debate whether or not he ever will. That's part of the tragedy. It makes him a bad guy; all the great things that Ben has done for people make him a good guy with a bad rap by some people. If I want evil, I'd rather have an evil character than just evil methods. I'll admit that evil is a broad term, and murderlusting serial killers have a place there at one end of the spectrum, but I'm not at all, I don't think, encouraging a generic standard. The top five entries were all unique, despite the fact that they all killed people.

As for you bringing up the canon...why? Our contests are something that's non-canon in a non-canon fan work of an actual thing. The most creative liberties can be taken here.

I'm sorry my judging style didn't appeal to you. Your main post is right, there's an unclear metric in play: me. I can't give a real metric of what I like and don't like, and the limited scope of what I ask for compared to the massive spectrum of what I got. I could only draw the line in the sand after combing the beach. If that makes me suck as a judge, so be it, but if nobody makes a contest for a month, I'll be the one that does it, and people have only to not participate to make me stop.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

All done.


^People looking at the results.................................................................me^

Be gentle

Heroes of Beacon - Contest of Champions

Results voided - pending re-judgment

Volunteers acceptable

Popular contest, huh? Might have to revisit this idea in the future. As always, if you disagree with my opinions, that's fine and you can let me know, but if you dislike my subjective judging style, you're welcome to make and judge your own contests. Admittedly, while huge contests are great, they're also awful. There's so much quality, but with 17 entrants, it goes without saying that even good stuff will have to be truncated by downright fine stuff. That means that I have to be a little more cutting with my criticisms as well (see any similarities between dissect and discern? Socrates did). Let's jump right in:

First place, and a reward of 4 credits, goes to @Lugubrious, for a character I legitimately consider flawless and fascinating. Well done!

Second place, and a reward of 3 credits, goes to @Crimmy. Yeah, everyone expected you to score big. What can I say? You've got a sick, twisted mind. Congratulations. Unfortunately for evil!Gratia, there's a certain someone I liked more.

Third place, and a reward of 2 credits, goes to @Abillioncats. Nice serial killer. Maybe it's just because of how horrifying Lilith was when I watched Supernatural, but psychopathic and incredibly powerful little girls who act all nice and murder the poor, poor people who step even a toe out of line are something that really spooks me. You made a good villain, and while perhaps not to the level of writing, explanation, or inspiration that some of the others did, managed to get lucky in picking something that wowed me. Frightening! That said, you did do something I'm going to term 'White Fang Ex Machina' that almost compromised you. More on that in the later reviews...

In fourth place, with a single, grief-choked credit, is...well, I'll be darned if it wasn't super-tough to pick between @Forsythe and @Nytem4re. You both did very well, coming up with concepts I enjoyed and were unique among this cast, both villains more in terms of occupation, environment, and bad choice than flat-out psychopathy, bloodlust, and two-sentence inclusions of the dastardly White Fang to kill off a character or four related to yours that serves as the Start of Darkness. One of you made White Fang the theme, developing it and the character's relationship with it, and the other neglected it entirely in favor of going full-out mobster. I found it interesting that Grane, though a good man with desires for peace, still fulfills my request of a bad guy because of his inactivity in the face of evil. I also found it interesting to take a glimpse into Diamond's future, seemingly the road she's already on that is up to the events of the RP to change. So who did I pick, the snake soldier (Metal Gear...? You're that ninja...) or the unsettling creepy-smiling bag? Nytem4re's Grane, for being just a shade deeper and a little more tragic. Please don't hurt me, Forsythe.

@Guess Who Nice serial killer. Your entry was planned and assembled well, but the overall came to something I found rather uninspiring. Her personality doesn't really evidence a mass murderer, which I feel (best embodied in the phrase 'she proceeded to assassinate every top dog in the organization') isn't exactly handled well. Sure, she's paranoid and self-conscious, and she suffered a tragedy, but in her situation people with merely those issues wouldn't go on a bloody vendetta against one of the most powerful terrorist organizations in Remnant, especially one meant to wipe out every single White Fang member in there is. Plus, going after the White Fang exclusively struck me as less fascinating than other villains' goals.

@Floodtalon, tying your villain's backstory in with Roman Torchwick was a fine and unique idea in terms of this contest. However, I feel that taking a story element from the main show is an ambitious step and requires very competent use to be effective. As it is, your use of Neo seemed like (sorry to put it bluntly) reaching out for a waifu, though to be honest I'd be liable to fall into a similar trap. As for Roman, Cobalt and he just...met, disagreed a little, and then committed crime. There's a trope called They Fight Crime which entails two people of little association or connection coming together for a somewhat contrived reason to fight crime together, usually for the sake of coolness. Don't get me wrong, your entry was indeed pretty darn cool, but coolness is a part of the villain, not the entirety. If you disagree, allow me to point out a fallacy: you said Cobalt was of average intelligence, after saying “He wanted money, he wanted power, he wanted respect. The only way he was going to get those things was if he stole them, so he did.” That seems contrived; after all, normal people get money, power, and respect by a variety of means. The only people who need to steal to get things that aren't sustenance are psychotic, stupid, or both.

@Write Nice serial killer. Wings must have been really, really important to the Nuits' society to make poor young Estelle such a permanent and horrific dead husk inside after losing them. I like the use of Bianca in the story, though her mother wanting to kill her to “raise her remaining daughter to be a true Heiress to the Nuit name” came as something of a shock. Also, Mrs. Nuit would try and get her happy little winged daughter killed instead of her broken, malformed older one? Well, there's something to be said for inverting expectations. I've accepted that Mrs. Nuit, based on her behavior toward her own sweet little daughter is a complete psychopath, and that therefore Estelle probably inherited it. Er, but if asploding her mommy was the “second time Estellise found herself tainted by the bloodlust that now envelops her very soul”, what was the first time? And then, the Little Conquerer goes a-killing, slaughtering the inhabitants of the world upon which her anger turned so well that a bunch of faunus became her cult (cults leaders typically have some aspect of charisma, persuasion, or similar phenomena that attracts followers, by the way), whom Estelle doesn't in her bloodthirsty anger instantly asplode. What injustices are the faunus fighting for? If it's the situation with Bianca, the only perpetrator of said injustice would be the dead Mrs. Nuit, and if it was the bullying Estelle received, well, that's a pretty common reason for a cult to be established. Barring the fact that this lunatic murderer is conducting fully-fledged battles with her cult army, who is she battling against? Don't get me wrong, you wrote very well, but overall I hope you can't blame me for needling the faults in your entry's logic..

@Prince of Seraphs, the most major reason why you're not ranking this time is inconsistency. So your character's a villain—that implies that they do bad things enough to be opposed by the heroes. Your character was neglected and abused as a child by her father, because her father hates faunus. In fact, he hated them enough to...marry one? And go mad with grief after her death? On the subject of her mother, it appears as if she was a Huntress or something similar given the nightmare blades and the 'secrets' that a little girl (read: ingenuity and disconnect with emotions and wants to normal children) learned before she was twelve, both before and after Melanie's death at age seven. In the personality section it says she's not angry, just dispassionate, but people who aren't angry continue to be abused indefinitely, not attack an abuser twice their height and likely triple their weight with enough force to pierce their ribcage and internal organs, or to get mad at a scumbag holding girls in his basement. On that subject as well, and the fate meted out to him: 'disassembled him, piece, by piece, by piece'. That sounds sociopathic to me. Sociopathy isn't lack of consciousness, but lack of an ability to form emotions like shame, guilt, sadness, or disgust. Also, being 'dead to the world' would imply that she's lost her principles, and yet she's principled enough to target bad people and not good ones in a sense of justice. How can a character be gorefest levels of insane sometimes and a honorable thief other times without being crazy? Additionally, on the subject of thieving: why did she turn to it? To survive? Then why'd she leave a calling card at each spot? For some purpose? What purpose? It's not clear.

I didn't choose you this time because you seemed to carve your character's personality and history out of conflicting traits, prioritizing drama over sense/continuity. To be fair, you wrote very well, and painted a vivid picture, and I liked the character. I'm being hard on you because you've requested my best critique in the past, and maybe a little because if I didn't go at you so hard, you'd win like every one of these contests.

@Herecomesthesnow, a good theme well executed, but one that didn't strike me as much as it did other characters. You've made a very convincing resentful loser, and you've cast him as a bad guy is that he wants to make the people with talent, skill, luck, and so forth into losers too, and that's interesting but not as interesting as some of the others to me. His power even reminded me of a Stand power in its eccentricity. I am sorry to tantalize you by saying you came so close to ranking.

@Multi_Media_Man, I assume that in this villain universe you altered the Schnee Dust Corporation to be evil? Because while it's disreputable in the main canon, it's not nearly as bad as you portray it. Anyway, does Oswald's ability to slay hundreds of people, some of them for their evildoing but some merely for the patch on their uniforms, stem merely from his grizzled veteraniness? Going into war changes people, but war alone doesn't turn an essentially good-hearted communist into a machiavellian, bloodthirsty anarchist, even if his method of mass murder is the bullet rather than the cleaver. I'm not sure at which point his grizzlines comes into play anyway, though I've concluded it to be during his career as a Hunter, which is why he is able to abandon whatever principles and morality he has to slay a man out of resignation rather than any kind of greater than usual provocation. Regardless, I get that he's good, but at the start of his anarchist career before any Valean Coalition begins, he's able to take out triple-guard stations belonging to the biggest and evilest corporation on Remnant? Yikes. Bottom line is, good and powerful villain, and kudos for the effort, but I did not like it as much as some others.

@Plank Sinatra, misinterpreted 'Affiliation' qualifier. While reading the Personality section entertained me, I got more story than actual information about your character's personality. About the only thing I can glean from between the time she was a “extroverted girl, charismatic, easy to hold a conversation with” and the time “flew off the handle, throwing augmented reality sunglasses at wall and screaming obscenities” was that she had an 'attitude change' which trended toward 'growing extremism'. Extremism isn't a state of mind, it's a qualifier for ideals and behavior. Was she extremely depressed? Forlorn? Wrathful? If so, why? Reading it, I thought Chatsworth, who documented this change, might be able to shed some light for me with an interview quote or something, but it never really came. How did this correlate with her wanting to destroy all Dust? I get that her missions and similar things pushed her that direction...is that where the extremism comes in? How does hating dust, then, translate to her condemning the potential of Beacon students and teachers? In the end, I liked the character you've made, but getting there, in combination with the dual involvement of White Fang and Schnee Dust Company that is becoming trite quickly, I did not like it as much as some of the others. I came in wanting to learn about a new bad guy, and I did, but only through the lens of a case file. It's important to note that since you tied off the story, it might be difficult for anyone to include you in their villain stories next round.

@Sho Minazuki, good stuff, pretty simple, nothing outstanding. Believe it or not, I think you might have gone a little too subtle with your changes. I didn't know how to feel about the fact that he simultaneously destroyed (implying loss of property, life, etc.) and took over (implying charisma, intimidation, persuasion) an organization of people who specialize in killing people who, I assume, make them lose property and life, and attempt to intimidate or persuade them after doing so. It brought up the image of an assassin organization that is honor-bound and strictly hierarchical, something like, 'you kill the leader, you become the leader', thereby ignoring all the normal ramifications something like that would entail. In short, I was not as interested in your tale as with those I ranked. Sorry!

@Awesomoman64, it goes without saying that anyone who prefers murder and mutilation to talking to anything even resembling reason or socialization would have a pretty screwed up notion of justice. That comes to play in the backstory alright, though I must admit I find 'White Fang kills someone important to character' to be rather overused. You did a good job deconstructing the idea of the hero who becomes the opposite of everything he once stood for; nevertheless, I couldn't help but feel that your entry felt a touch simplistic—barebones. Making a bad guy isn't hard, but making an intriguing bad guy is, and those who ranked just managed to do it a little better. Thank you for entering so soon after your return; better luck next time.

@Suku Nice serial killer. You took the idea of inconsistency in your character's personality and rolled with it, purposefully blending vestiges of a fundamentally good character with a surging and overpower hatred to get the crazed and purposeless mishmash that is Cian. Unfortunately this hodgepodge continued with the structure of her history. You might consider checking for spelling and grammatical errors sometimes. It's nothing serious, but among a group of people that very rarely make mistakes, it sticks out a little. In some situations however it did change meaning, for instance, “Might it seemed controlled everything and without it you can protect anyone yourself included “. I figured out pretty quickly what you meant but all the same it could be confusing. In terms of story elements, a bit of it came from bad luck, which is less interesting (not to mention less difficult) than other ways of achieving tragedy. In the end, despite liking your entry, you barely lost out to Nytem4re's Grane.

@Shadowkiller912, you took a direction I completely did not expect, which is good. Overall, I'd say you performed quite well, but in a few of your design decisions the total acceptability of your submission trended downward. First, you made her ludicrously overpowered, which needs a lot of tact to work. I know it fits given her divine power, but then again, the semblance is a manifestation of the user's personality. Second, the basis for your character, while unique and fascinating, proves to be a detriment. From the imagery you've invoked with your words, I imagine you've taken a lot of inspiration from Judeo-Christian lore, and Lucina invokes the dual-temperament God of the Hebrews (in that He is capable of both terrifying wrath and wondrous goodness) by being capable of incredible destruction while also possessing a “heart of gold”. Also, I spotted the use of 'Lucina', which is a derivative of Lucia, the angelic being (as seen in Dante's Divine Comedy) who represents the Light of God. You used your characters within Lucina's backstory to make her oppose evil. Though this led to her to be viewed badly by others taking it at face value, the fact that Lucina is an anti-hero at worst brings me to the most condemning point: you did not make a villain that I liked as much as the others. For that, despite your superb concept, you are disqualified. Please don't take that to mean that your submission is worthless, though; it just doesn't fit the theme, and couldn't without greatly lessening its impact or switching subjects altogether. Oh, except that you used 'White Fang ex machina' to deal with family, like many others did.

@Kaithas Nice serial killer. This version of Amy I can definitely see as a psycho opposed by a hero time, and has a good flow and composition to it. There are, however, some points with which I found myself unconvinced. Because of a purposeful but very much regretted murder and the event that eventually resulted from it (which, incidentally, I would have been happier knowing how she survived the shock/blood loss) your character lost all mental inhibitions preventing her from getting what she wants, which is primarily not being alone. Not being alone, of course, involves people. However, she sees no value in the human life...are you with me? I'm also not sure where the blood paintings come in (I assume she leaves no trace after her gory murders by carefully wiping all of the blood paint she used off on her target), though that may just be me not remembering that her character proper has an affinity for art. To me, it seemed like adding a calling card for vague reasons. All the time, I liked it. Scary to think of what tiny, tiny chance outcomes could have such an effect on the future.

Wait, did you really think I'd award myself the victory? Hah hah hah, no. It's Onarax. He took an origin story that made sense (without White Fang Ex Machina), a single overriding drive for revenge, a full admission and incorporation of hypocrisies into the goal, a very thorough style that I legitimately enjoyed reading despite its length. You explained things well, left no loose ends or glaring/unaddressed contradictions as far as I can see, and overall made a very good bad guy. What else can I say? Take my credits—all four of them.

Phoenix Wing (A Fairy Tail RP-Always Open, Open)

I'll be damned. Cloud Strife is going to be a character for super smash bros.

@hatakekuro

Hype hype hype

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

Gosh darn it to heck I've narrowed it down to five people and I'm having so much trouble figuring out the poor sucker who won't make the final cut!

...Alright. Deep breath, I'm going back in. If the results aren't up in five minutes, wait longer.