Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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I think it would kind of feel hard to not feel attacked a bit. Not from you though @Cyndyr. You've been understanding and calm.

If we want to get things done, the best thing to do is leave egos at the door. That includes myself. I tried not to be, but I was a tad passive aggressive as well, or I appeared that way (I was with Pugbutter though).

Now, if Mods can admit they make mistakes, the first order of business is to forgive if they profess it, and to help them move forward from there and work with them.

If users have made mistakes and admit it, same thing.

At the end of the day, we're all here to have fun in roleplays and hang with friends. Working together is the best thing we can do. We just need to admit there is some cognitive dissonance and lack of understanding between each side here.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Meth Quokka
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From what I can see there is no storage centre of screenshots for anything to do with this beyond the publicly available evidence chest, though maybe I just haven't delved deep enough into the lair of evil.

My position on screenshots for the record is that if they demonstrate an intent to break the rules of the site, then yes they should be used as a source of evidence to justify a warning or ban. Therefore I suppose if you felt the screenshot of a private conversation constituted some sort of abuse of power it would be understandable why you did it but don't be surprised if the person involved in the discussion is less than receptive to having private conversations screenshotted.

If that view makes me a hypocrite then you have no idea the meaning of the word.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago 2 yrs ago Post by Nytem4re
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From what I can see there is no storage centre of screenshots for anything to do with this beyond the publicly available evidence chest, though maybe I just haven't delved deep enough into the lair of evil.

My position on screenshots for the record is that if they demonstrate an intent to break the rules of the site, then yes they should be used as a source of evidence to justify a warning or ban. Therefore I suppose if you felt the screenshot of a private conversation constituted some sort of abuse of power it would be understandable why you did it but don't be surprised if the person involved in the discussion is less than receptive to having private conversations screenshotted.

If that view makes me a hypocrite then you have no idea the meaning of the word.


I want to make it clear I'm fine with screenshotting. I never argued against screenshotting itself.

I'm not fine with Nutts claiming that cynder's screencaps were subject to rebuke, when those who took the screencaps were clearly taken to document what they thought were abuses of power, yet seemingly condoning his own screenshot activity.

Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by j8cob appeal 2
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Say my name enough times and I appear.

I'm gonna start off by saying that while I think a lot of the decisions that the staff have made recently have been stupid and miscalculated at best, I don't have any particular issues with the mod team. There's nothing that any of you have really done personally to me so my annoyances are hardly relevant. I approached Nutts over one of the screenshots that was exposed of him saying I should be banned and asked him about it, as I took it as an unjustified attack on my character. He cleared the air and I've given him the benefit of the doubt on it. I put the screenshot in my signature when Nutts slowed down significantly in his responses in our conversation, primarily to provoke his attention and keep getting answers. Something he did do. So I have no grudge against him. I've got some criticisms of him along with the rest of the staff but nothing that keeps me up at night plotting revenge.

I do take issue with Mahz, however. He has a plethora of critical flaws that I could fill all 150k characters explaining but that would get me nowhere and I highly doubt anyone here is unfamiliar with the man at this point except perhaps the newcomers. His behavior and abuse of power should be unacceptable in any leadership role. He is an emotional person, which itself isn't an inherent flaw but it reflects in his actions as the site admin. As far as I'm concerned my ban was wholly unjustified, nothing more than an emotional tantrum from Mahz. Starting with my ban from Discord, I broke none of the rules. He had no excuse to ban me from the Discord other than the one Nutts provided to me in private, which was something along the lines of how muting wasn't working at the time or some shit. Okay sure, I can let that one slide. He wanted me to shut up for a bit, as stupid as his reason for it is and despite the fact he gave me absolutely no warning and ignored both me and Nyte (whom he muted/banned almost simultaneously). Whatever, I could've probably been unbanned in a few days when he got over himself. My ban on-site however is quite possibly the least intelligent punitive action taken by any member of the staff in the past eight years I've been here. The blatant disrespect that was demonstrated towards me isn't something that has been properly addressed here so far, despite how often I've been namedropped. So I'm gonna do everyone a favor and walk you through the real problem with the Guild.

There are a set of rules that Mahz himself wrote and had kept for years. I joined in 2009 and can't recall them ever significantly changing until after I was banned specifically to accommodate and justify my ban. Mahz had wanted to ban me because I had insulted him to what seems to be a serious degree, but I broke no rules. I followed his rules and had for years. The only ammunition ever used against me, something that I'm still seeing in this thread, is manufactured and baseless claims. All that has ever been against me is "he said, she said" rumors that had never been brought up to me and had also never seen any actions or public discourse. Complaints that have never seen the light of day and were never justified enough to require attention from any of the authorities they had been lodged at. The worst thing anyone has is that I made a rape joke in the "darker humors" channel on the old GCS server and was asked to remove it. And I did. I removed it. I didn't argue or complain to the authority. I complied, despite my disagreement with the situation. I kept my complaints to myself and my friends and even at that I was over it within the hour. No skin off my back.

So when I keep seeing people, most importantly Mahz, saying things like my "history of being toxic" I'm left to wonder if they are lying or they have been lied to. At worst my personality is abrasive and my sense of humor is dark. At worst. I don't go around inciting violence, I don't go around making threats, I don't go around making sexual advances, I don't go around harassing other people. But clearly I should've been doing some of the above because clearly users who do aren't banned and here I am the odd one out. I will disagree with people, most often for the sake of entertainment, and provoke reactions with mildly aggressive political discourse to get a few kicks. Sure, we can call that entry-level trolling if we want to split hairs so I won't complain about that descriptor as it's perhaps the most accurate one used to describe me so far from any of you sad lot.

When Mahz was literally bullying my friend Nyte in the babycrib channel on the official Discord, insulting him and ignoring his arguments and mocking him, I decided to give Chairman Mahz a little lip in the same fashion he was giving everyone else. After all the channel was made by Mahz to insult people and be toxic and Mahz himself was presently doing just that. I broke none of his rules by participating in his own game. I posted five one-line sentences in that channel consecutively and was muted before I could post a sixth. The channel was deleted perhaps a minute later if that. All I had ever said in the self-professed "toxic chat" got me muted. I waited a few minutes and then asked Mahz how long I was muted for and he told me indefinitely and then ignored me further. Sometime the next day I was unmuted and said a few things in the politics channel and main channel. I'm lead to believe this is what Nutts was referring to about mutes not working. Hours after I had last posted anything in that server I was banned. When I approached Mahz over the ban I was ignored. Naturally I bitched about this a bit with my friends on other servers but made no further attempts to approach the staff on the subject.

So our resident idiot Grim decides she wants to be banned and then goes out with her own little fanfare. Good for her, glad she had fun. But there were several interesting screenshots she shared that seemed to paint a picture of the mod team deliberately insulting me in private. That didn't sit well with me at all since it appeared to me that Mahz put a massive grudge on me and had a hate boner he was just waiting to use to fuck me over, all the while it appeared several other members of staff either agreed with him or merely supported him for sake of subordination. The screenshot that stood out the most has been shared several times and I've already addressed it and my conversation with Nutts about it. Repeating myself is fun but I'm going to assume everyone here has triple-digit IQ and spare the recap. In summary Nutts gave Mahz the perfect excuse he was looking for to punish me for the oh so serious slight I had against him. He found a way to ban me without me even having to break the rules. Sure, he changed the rules afterwards which would've justified an action to be taken against me. But an immediate ban without warning or any previous issues on-site and only one previous issue on the Discord which also had no previous issues before that ban? I'm sorry but if you think Mahz went about that in a professional, impersonal, mature, or respectable manner then you don't qualify as any of that either.

Plain and simple: I was wronged. I've been punished for nothing and insulted by people who've never even talked to me merely on the basis of rumor. I suffered abuse from the highest power of the site. What am I supposed to do about that? Do any of you expect me to go back to the man who mistreated me to complain about him mistreating me? Or do I circumvent Mahz entirely and go to another staff member instead so that they may undermine his authority? I have been put in the worst position and not by my own doing. I had been using RPG for over eight years at the time I was banned. Eight. I had been on RPG longer than most of the mods. I likely had a collective post count of over 10k posts combining the old site with this one. I had seen many changes in the site and community. It's not entirely unlikely that I have even spent more hours actually on the site than even Mahz himself has, but I suppose that's not a particularly high bar considering his track record of activity throughout the years. What do I have to show for this? I get told that I don't care about the site. I get told that I wasn't active. I get punished. I get insulted. I get turned into practically a taboo subject.

All because I insulted Mahz once.

I appreciate @pugbutter for quoting me, but I'm gonna repeat it myself now that I'm here. I don't just want to have my ban revoked but I want an apology from Mahz himself. Hell, I can even apologize for insulting him too. If he's willing to apologize for his actions I should be willing to apologize for mine. But as it stands now I see no reason to apologize to a man who doesn't deserve it. Perhaps Mahz sees it the same way, but he's allowed to be wrong because he's the admin. I'll probably never particularly like him or befriend him. But more important to me than Mahz is the site itself, where I've spent countless hours over the years. My activity leading up to my ban had been waning as I was very busy and frankly I wasn't seeing any roleplays that interested me when I did have my free time. I wasn't just ignoring the site and hardly logging on. I logged in every day. Checked for new roleplays every day. Read what my friends were up to every day. I was never inactive like Mahz would like to claim. And if I were to have my account unbanned I would be back to logging into it every day and hopefully joining something fun and interesting. That being said, I still demand my apology. I don't want an apology by proxy from another staff, or a collective apology from the staff. I want Mahz to apologize and admit he was wrong so that we can move on. There's hardly anything to discuss about my ban. There's no need. It's all on the table. It's been public knowledge since I was banned in the first place. There's no moral ambiguity to any of the actions taken. Sometimes things are black-and-white and this is one of those cases. If Mahz can't apologize when he's wrong then perhaps everyone can reflect on what the community here really wants to subject itself to.

Now I get to the fun parts.

@POOHEAD189 For the complaints that you claim to have gotten about me, nothing was ever done. Nothing was ever brought to my attention. That's because there was never any substance to them. You don't have to like me yourself but surely you understood that the complaints you're referring to are meaningless so there was no point to bringing them up as a general if you weren't gonna have specifics. It's comments like that which perpetuated a myth of "j8cob is toxic" without any proof, something I normally wouldn't mind but since it ended up helping Mahz rationalize his own actions it clearly became a problem.

@Inkarnate I hope you realize that so far you've only contributed to this thread with borderline irrational sycophant defenses. Your "opinion" on several fundamental things are so heavily flawed that they no longer constitute opinions so much as beliefs, which can be wrong and in your case are. The others on this thread may not be good at pointing out your weak attempts at hypocritical generalizations but you know exactly what you're doing. Defending the staff is one thing, defending the staff against legitimate complaints that are solely the fruit of their labors is another thing. You are doing the "another thing" right now. Blaming the people complaining for complaining is shameful. Your intense cling to authority figures doesn't put you or them in the right. Behaving like this is the reason you will never be staff here.

@Hank Do you want me to come to you on the topic of removing my ban? I'm legitimately not sure if I should wait for Mahz and confront him again, because I'm perfectly willing to do that, or go through you. I'm not going to compromise on my demand for an apology from Mahz and I'm not an expert on the staff's present method of doing things so I figure I would ask you what to do next.

@NuttsnBolts How did I contribute to anything that Grim did? Seriously, that's really bothering me that you said that because it makes absolutely no sense. I explicitly told her she was retarded for what she was doing so I have no idea how it can be confused that I supported her, let alone helped her. Also: when I used a screenshot of your quotes in my signature, why didn't you say anything to me? We were in the middle of a conversation, you had the authority to tell me to knock my shit off. You had to go out of your way to complain to Mahz when you could've used your own powers to say "remove that from your signature." And I would've done so. It served the purpose of getting your attention and I wouldn't have even complained about that demand. Your dependency on Mahz, at that time as I don't know if you've since matured as a mod or not, created a number of problems aside from enabling the admin's poor disposition. I'm glad you're willing to address that now but I've still noticed that in this thread you do almost everything you can to shift blame short of actually saying "don't blame us." Handling criticism should be part of the job and you're trying. Just don't be like Inkarnate about it and take it in stride.

@AngelofOctober Apply to be a mod here. Understanding is woefully lacking so I'm sure you could make a good case for the position.

As for some closing words on what logically will be the only thing I post before continuing things in PMs with the only people that actually matter, the topic of transparency and accountability came up several times and I think y'all should get back to discussing that instead of having a dick measuring contest. It'd probably be more productive and since y'all so worried about getting banned or something then it'd also help with the "not getting banned" shtick. Perhaps the biggest lesson to learn here is what happens when you have no accountability at all with a staff prone to errors.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago 2 yrs ago Post by Inkarnate
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@Inkarnate I hope you realize that so far you've only contributed to this thread with borderline irrational sycophant defenses. Your "opinion" on several fundamental things are so heavily flawed that they no longer constitute opinions so much as beliefs, which can be wrong and in your case are. The others on this thread may not be good at pointing out your weak attempts at hypocritical generalizations but you know exactly what you're doing. Defending the staff is one thing, defending the staff against legitimate complaints that are solely the fruit of their labors is another thing. You are doing the "another thing" right now. Blaming the people complaining for complaining is shameful. Your intense cling to authority figures doesn't put you or them in the right. Behaving like this is the reason you will never be staff here.

I might need to re-read some of my earlier responses, but upon the time of writing them I attempted to remove all of my emotional investment I had to properly post comments that were as rational as they could be. But you’re correct in that my opinion could be wrong, I’ve never disagreed on that front, opinions can be wrong.

However, the thing is I do not view every complaint as legitimate nor do I think the complaints are solely the fruit of their labors when I know of what “dominos” fell to lead to the circumstances that led to these complaints. You know that, but our perspectives have never aligned by any measure. I feel like blaming those complaining isn’t shameful given the context and conclusion I’ve come to, you are welcome to your take on that but it is what it is. As for my “clinging” to authority members, it doesn’t exist. It never has. I’ve criticized Mahz for several years, disagreed with staff policies, and even actions of the staff. It’s just in this instance – this summer of outrage – I actually side on the “authority” side of things.

I may not be in the right and I might end up on the incorrect side of the issues, but in the inverse this is the same for you and the other key members involved in this dispute.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by TheTwistedOne
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I think we are all going to go in circles and agree to disagree.
We should all admit our wrongs, and both sides have wrongs because neither is completely innocent. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Swallow your egos, get over yourselves, apologize, and let's make guild enjoyable for everyone.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Inkarnate
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I think we are all going to go in circles and agree to disagree.
We should all admit our wrongs, and both sides have wrongs because neither is completely innocent. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Swallow your egos, get over yourselves, apologize, and let's make guild enjoyable for everyone.

I can agree with this. Ultimately, all I want out of all of this is a damned ceasefire and people to just stop. For everyone including myself to stop being involved in this mess and move on. Things to stabilize and be left alone and we all go back to writing collaborative prose.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Meth Quokka
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I'm happy for this thread to continue as a discussion rather than an argument, which it is threatening to turn into. Once again, I cannot comment on the events that happened because I wasn't there at the time.

However what I will say that intentionally insulting a member of the staff, especially if you're unfamiliar with them is not a great idea. Yes staff make mistakes just like any other user, but that is not an invitation to go open season on them.

To me, mistakes were made on every side and finding a path forward is gonna take some compromises from everyone.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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I think we are all going to go in circles and agree to disagree.
We should all admit our wrongs, and both sides have wrongs because neither is completely innocent. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Swallow your egos, get over yourselves, apologize, and let's make guild enjoyable for everyone.

Gladly. What shall I apologize for?
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by pugbutter
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Heh. That’s funny given you just likened me to Vidkun Quisling, who supported the Nazi’s. This is how you want to talk to people – likening the moderators to actual fascists who exterminated several members of my family.


Well, the Nazis were the ones who exterminated/ousted anyone with differing ideologies...and you're currently defending the people on this site who issue unfair bans on the basis of these banned parties "setting dangerous precedents" and "sowing dissent"... and you're seemingly doing this purely for personal gain while pretending you're doing it for the good of the site (your "nation," analogically) ...

so yeah it's pretty accurate.

Also, literally using "muh holocaust" to make people feel sorry for you, classy move.
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Well, the Nazis were the ones who exterminated/ousted anyone with differing ideologies...and you're currently defending the people on this site who issue unfair bans on the basis of these banned parties "setting dangerous precedents" and "sowing dissent"... and you're seemingly doing this purely for personal gain while pretending you're doing it for the good of the site (your "nation," analogically) ...

so yeah it's pretty accurate.

Also, literally using "muh holocaust" to make people feel sorry for you, classy move.

Not as classy as calling the mod's fascists, I guess.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Meth Quokka
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Can we cut the Nazi references at this stage? The premise of this thread is civil and those kind of comments are nothing close to that.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by TheTwistedOne
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<Snipped quote by TheTwistedOne>
Gladly. What shall I apologize for?


Well I didnt want to name names, but if we're gonna get specific, Cyn, the only person that really done fucked up on that side is Sins shitstorm ahahah.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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Well I didnt want to name names, but if we're gonna get specific, Cyn, the only person that really done fucked up on that side is Sins shitstorm ahahah.

Ah, I see. I don't mind apologizing my faults if there are any that I should directly acknowledge, so, yeah!
Hidden 2 yrs ago 2 yrs ago Post by Midnight Howl
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<Snipped quote by pugbutter>
Not as classy as calling the mod's fascists, I guess.


Rather than arguing over personal discrepancies I think staying on topic would be wise. To both of you.

**It takes away from whatever compromise is hoped to be achieved here. If any.
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by TheTwistedOne
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<Snipped quote by TheTwistedOne>
Ah, I see. I don't mind apologizing my faults if there are any that I should directly acknowledge, so, yeah!


I don't think you did anything wrong, and as I mentioned on the discords it's complete fuckry your name got dragged through the mud when you weren't even involved.. if anything YOU are owed an apology.

I also think Nyt and Jacobs ban were unjust having been present for both of them
Hidden 2 yrs ago 2 yrs ago Post by Didgeridont
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I'm happy for this thread to continue as a discussion rather than an argument, which it is threatening to turn into. Once again, I cannot comment on the events that happened because I wasn't there at the time.

However what I will say that intentionally insulting a member of the staff, especially if you're unfamiliar with them is not a great idea. Yes staff make mistakes just like any other user, but that is not an invitation to go open season on them.

To me, mistakes were made on every side and finding a path forward is gonna take some compromises from everyone.


Nah, I feel as though this type of sentiment is erroneous because of how it presupposes that both sides are equally at fault in every way and everyone is equally to blame. I think that the staff should be held to a higher standard. When they make mistakes, they should own them IMMEDIATELY. They are meant to be placed on a pedestal. They are meant to be exemplars. It is very different when a random user slips up and acts like a meanie and when a staff member acts like a meanie. With great power comes great responsibility (I learned that one off a fortune cookie), which is to say that it is much more damning and much more shocking when a pillar of the community acts out in such a way.

What mistakes were made on a regular user's side? What sort of concessions will regular forum users have to make in order to have some positive change occur in how this site functions? Will me or anyone else critical of the administration have to take a vow of silence never to speak ill of the mods if you guys fix your stuff? Will people have to apologize for being in Valhalla, or else you won't change anything? It doesn't make sense. OK some people did some stuff that some other people didn't like, but does that discredit their argument? No. Does that change anything about the truth of the matter? No.

It doesn't make sense to try and act as though "everyone's made mistakes so lets just be nice and hold hands and sing kumbaya". Sorry if this seems harsh but it's frustrating seeing this kind of argument made that tries to create some sort of non-existent parity between two conflicting viewpoints. President Trump got crucified for saying something like this (even though I think he was correct), so how is it any different in this context?
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Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by j8cob appeal 2
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@Kangaroo I'm sorry, but I feel like there's no room for compromise here. Not with my personal situation. Honestly I don't have any investment for the other parts of the conversation, except for Nyte's and Cynder's treatment, but where I stand there is no reasonable leeway. I broke no rules. I did nothing wrong. I have no reason to apologize for anything until Mahz proves to me that he's not as bad as I think he is, in which case my only obligation to apologize would be because I'd then feel guilty for insulting him. As it stands now I have no incentive to apologize to anybody in this thread or on this site. Other topics discussed so far have room for compromise but not this one. Your understanding of the situation is limited due to not being there but I can assure you that my only mistake was thinking that Mahz would follow his own rules. If there was any defense for Mahz's actions against me it would've been made by now. Even the rest of the staff agreed that he was overly emotional and not in the right state of mind. So I'm not going to compromise. He is.

@TheTwistedOne Not gonna apologize either.

@Inkarnate There is no inverse here. I am not in the wrong. Supposing there is a possibility that I might be wrong for the sake of equal measure to words is critically flawed. I can be wrong on subjects, I'm not infallible. But to suggest I'm in the wrong here is a demonstration of ignorance to the topic at hand. The question becomes if its willful or benign and with you I'm not sure.
Hidden 2 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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@POOHEAD189 For the complaints that you claim to have gotten about me, nothing was ever done. Nothing was ever brought to my attention. That's because there was never any substance to them. You don't have to like me yourself but surely you understood that the complaints you're referring to are meaningless so there was no point to bringing them up as a general if you weren't gonna have specifics. It's comments like that which perpetuated a myth of "j8cob is toxic" without any proof, something I normally wouldn't mind but since it ended up helping Mahz rationalize his own actions it clearly became a problem.

I like you, and I have nothing against you. I am sorry things seemed to look as if I was pointing a finger at you, but I was simply saying why I thought that there was a chance you might have been banned because of what I had seen. That did not hold any sway to how you were actually banned, or what I think of you as a person. Like I said, I did not know the reason you were banned at the time, if there ever was one.

I love messing with you and I enjoy your humor. I can see how you'd see it as me trying to condemn you, but in all honesty I was replying to what Odin said. The fact he didn't understand what I was saying, was why I repeated it, not because I had any goal in seeing you banned, or even to hurt your name. I honestly hope you get un-banned, dude. Like I said, I like you.
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