Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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ArenaSnow Devourer of Souls

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That said it makes no sense to have section specific moderators. It's either everything or bust. Having section specific moderators just means we need people that can only look at certain areas and have no influence elsewhere, so if something goes wrong and they're there, they can't even do anything. You should be a moderator for all sections and maybe just pay attention to the areas that need it.


Any form of moderator rank makes you a representative of the guild's staff team, and that is the angle that I approached the self nomination with. Moderators on this site simply do not nominate themselves if they want to be truly considered. And yes, I don't see the point in offering the rank piecemeal - it's far more effective, based on what I've seen on this site and others, to have teams with full capabilities (and perhaps specific things that they do on the side) that manage the site and its offshoots as a whole as compared to plopping moderators in each section to make a chaotic structure.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dion
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Dion JIHAD CHIQUE ® / NOT THE SHIT, DEFINITELY A FART

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<Snipped quote by Odin>

Any form of moderator rank makes you a representative of the guild's staff team, and that is the angle that I approached the self nomination with. Moderators on this site simply do not nominate themselves if they want to be truly considered. And yes, I don't see the point in offering the rank piecemeal - it's far more effective, based on what I've seen on this site and others, to have teams with full capabilities (and perhaps specific things that they do on the side) that manage the site and its offshoots as a whole as compared to plopping moderators in each section to make a chaotic structure.


Two of the current moderator team have nominated themselves to Hank. Despite you saying it didn't happen - it did. I should just correct you on that - please not that I'm not disagreeing with everything you said, but just saying that the way things work here isn't according to a standard set of rules, it's down to whatever the moderators feel like. This structure has worked for 10 years now, it seems, but we can all agree that post-guildfall things have changed.

Who is "the community"? Who stands for them? Who has properly collected the views of what is referenced as the "community" in any of the posts of this nature? I consider myself a member and wasn't asked about it to form that base.


Perhaps you weren't involved in the first thread that was made where we saw a wider reach in terms of users coming in and putting in their two cents (which is where the first list of suggestions came from). Although I vaguely seem to recall you participating, I'm not sure and I'm not in the mood to go hunting for it.

Yes, you were asked to participate, but my lack of capability to really publicly ask people + the fact that suggestions is the single least used sub section made it hard for me to attract a real group of representative users. My apologies for that, really, sincerely. I wish I could've done a better job but PM'ing all members of the forum 5 members at a time but that is just logistically impossible.

You see where I am going with this no? No, the suggestions are perhaps not entirely representative, but they're representative of the people who took time out of their day to participate. And you know, I think participating in a thread like this at least gives my bitching some legitimacy because unlike others who whine and complain, I go out of my way to at least try to help.

ArenaSnow, I think you're a nice guy, and we've had some nice posting back and forth in other threads. But now it just seems like you're attacking the credibility of this process as a whole based on factors I can't really do much about. No, not everyone on the guild participates, and yes, perhaps that means it's not representative at all. I hope you can also see that I'm trying to achieve something close to that regardless of the limited means I have as a standard user with no access to the discord.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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I didn't say anything because I didn't take it as spamming. By what others said, most were just wondering why he was doing it. I also said above that it could have been handled better . But as I also said, so far my methods have produced exactly one complaint to my knowledge about how I handled a situation, and if there are any others, I've not barred anyone from coming to me with criticisms about it.

As far as being a 'Real mod', I wasn't an arena mod long enough for people to even know I was that, but that hasn't stopped people from coming to me with issues. So they are finding out I'm a mod somehow. Oddly enough, none have been from the Arena, though even without mod abilities, those issues were taken care of as well. @Odin
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Meth Quokka
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It seems the story of my departure and return is somewhat less relevant now but nevertheless i feel it deserves a comment from me. Yes, resigning due to time was the majority reason but not all of the reasoning. There were some personal things that I'm not going to spread across the site because there are some things I like to keep private, as you basically said you understood why previously.

The activity comment; the primary difference between when I resigned and now is that I'm no longer at university and lost a 30-40 hr/week commitment whilst I was working 20-30 hours. The last two weeks got a little rough with work as I stepped into a caretaker manager role and I've had two days off in the last 15 days, one was tied up with some family stuff and the other I rather selfishly spent gaming. However every day I check my discord inbox and the staff channel. Sometimes I'm lax with the site's PM inbox but as I've said before, discord is the best way to reach me because of push notifications.

But I've received 6 reports in the last month, 4 were between the hours of 2-5am which is usually when I'm asleep and the other two I handled in less than 30 minutes. The only guild contacts I've had in my DM box besides that are personal guild conversations.

I said when I returned I wouldn't be trawling through the guild looking for things to do as a mod, I'm here to help users when contacted and to offer my opinion on any moderations issues that arise. If those two things are not desired by a sizeable contingent of the community, I will respect those wishes and step down. However, allow me to be self-indulgent and say I've not seen a single user suggest my return was a negative for the team and if someone does, contact me and I'm happy to discuss it.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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<Snipped quote by ArenaSnow>

Two of the current moderator team have nominated themselves to Hank. Despite you saying it didn't happen - it did. I should just correct you on that - please not that I'm not disagreeing with everything you said, but just saying that the way things work here isn't according to a standard set of rules, it's down to whatever the moderators feel like. This structure has worked for 10 years now, it seems, but we can all agree that post-guildfall things have changed.


In that case, fine. Now I'd like to see where they plopped themselves in that way out in a public space instead of taking it to a message to Mahz/Hank, where I would assume that process belongs.

Perhaps you weren't involved in the first thread that was made where we saw a wider reach in terms of users coming in and putting in their two cents (which is where the first list of suggestions came from). Although I vaguely seem to recall you participating, I'm not sure and I'm not in the mood to go hunting for it.


There was less than a dozen people outside of the usual active group that made a post, and not all were critical of the systems of moderators. The thread also tended to deviate from its purpose, but I digress. I wouldn't call it a basis for representation of the forum sections and average unaffiliated user. For that particular point, it was the wording that got me. The rest of the points could be chunked down to opinion. That one was presented in a way that implied "the community" had come to some sort of agreement. I never saw that agreement.

ArenaSnow, I think you're a nice guy, and we've had some nice posting back and forth in other threads. But now it just seems like you're attacking the credibility of this process as a whole based on factors I can't really do much about. No, not everyone on the guild participates, and yes, perhaps that means it's not representative at all. I hope you can also see that I'm trying to achieve something close to that regardless of the limited means I have as a standard user with no access to the discord.

I suppose while we're on that, yes, this thread has a small chance of reaching the appropriate amount of people and the right groups of people that make up the core of the site, likely due to its unofficial nature (not much that can be done with that, at least that I expect the staff team will do) and the fact that I get the feeling many people just don't care enough to look and/or comment. A discussion is all well and good - my bones are on specific points, such as the one where it was implied the community at large, beyond a specific group of individuals, had come to an actual decision on the matter.

Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Hank
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Hank Dionysian Mystery

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Quick note: it has never been the modus operandi of the Guild mods to be pro-active or "visible" in the way that @Odin means. The staff is around to clean up the mess and move threads when people ask us. Users are expected to handle issues themselves if they don't feel like involving a moderator, because we won't look for it otherwise. If the moderators seem like they're resting on their laurels instead of changing anything or actively engaging with the community it's because that's not part of their responsibilities. Never has been, probably never will be. They're not here to promote activity. Mahz provides a service and we're simply the extension of that. If users don't make use of that "feature", that's up to them. I don't want the moderators to loom over everyone and inject themselves into the community specific and minor sub-sections of the community if they don't feel like it. In fact, I prefer my moderators to be as unobtrusive as possible -- there when you need them, but otherwise out of your way.

And while we're discussing this big list of issues points of improvement, some of which I agree with, others I think are dubious and yet others I think aren't significant at all, the vast majority of the Guild users simply trundle along, writing their RPs in quiet content. They don't need more (or more visible) moderators. In fact, they don't need the existing moderators at all. That's an important perspective that needs to be remembered.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Little Bill
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Didgeridont
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In fact, they don't need the existing moderators at all.


Hmmmmmmmmm, that's a pretty good idea . . .
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Kratesis
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Lo, this is the tarantula's den! Would'st thou see the tarantula itself? Here hangeth its web: touch this, so that it may tremble.
There cometh the tarantula willingly: Welcome, tarantula! Black on thy back is thy triangle and symbol; and I know also what is in thy soul.
Thus do I speak unto you in parable, ye who make the soul giddy, ye preachers of equality! Tarantulas are ye unto me, and secretly revengeful ones!
"Vengeance will we use, and insult, against all who are not like us"—thus do the tarantula-hearts pledge themselves.
"And 'Will to Equality'—that itself shall henceforth be the name of virtue; and against all that hath power will we raise an outcry!"
Ye preachers of equality, the tyrant-frenzy of impotence crieth thus in you for "equality": your most secret tyrant-longings disguise themselves thus in virtue-words!
Their jealousy leadeth them also into thinkers' paths; and this is the sign of their jealousy—they always go too far: so that their fatigue hath at last to go to sleep on the snow.
Distrust all those who talk much of their justice! Verily, in their souls not only honey is lacking.
And when they call themselves "the good and just," forget not, that for them to be Pharisees, nothing is lacking but—power!

~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Didgeridont
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OOOH let me try, @Kratesis!

The nobler and more perfect a thing is, the later and slower is it in reaching maturity. Man reaches the maturity of his reasoning and mental faculties scarcely before he is eight-and-twenty; woman when she is eighteen; but hers is reason of very narrow limitations. This is why women remain children all their lives, for they always see only what is near at hand, cling to the present, take the appearance of a thing for reality, and prefer trifling matters to the most important. It is by virtue of man’s reasoning powers that he does not live in the present only, like the brute, but observes and ponders over the past and future; and from this spring discretion, care, and that anxiety which we so frequently notice in people. The advantages, as well as the disadvantages, that this entails, make woman, in consequence of her weaker reasoning powers, less of a partaker in them. Moreover, she is intellectually short-sighted, for although her intuitive understanding quickly perceives what is near to her, on the other hand her circle of vision is limited and does not embrace anything that is remote; hence everything that is absent or past, or in the future, affects women in a less degree than men. This is why they have greater inclination for extravagance, which sometimes borders on madness. Women in their hearts think that men are intended to earn money so that they may spend it, if possible during their husband’s lifetime, but at any rate after his death.

. . .

Because women in truth exist entirely for the propagation of the race, and their destiny ends here, they live more for the species than for the individual, and in their hearts take the affairs of the species more seriously than those of the individual. This gives to their whole being and character a certain frivolousness, and altogether a certain tendency which is fundamentally different from that of man; and this it is which develops that discord in married life which is so prevalent and almost the normal state.
Arthur Schopenhauer
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 3 yrs ago Post by Polymorpheus
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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Reading catch's post was what tuned me into this, but I did in fact use the new guild join feature that was in the general chat. It made things rather easy. I saw the message, clicked into the thread and had a welcome put up split seconds after the user posted. It's entirely our issue to welcome people, and I try to throw at least some sort of welcome to people who haven't had a response when I feel like hopping over there, which is fairly frequently.

In other words, when it comes to welcoming, we're just a lazy old bunch of bastards it seems.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Dion
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Dion JIHAD CHIQUE ® / NOT THE SHIT, DEFINITELY A FART

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Before I even begin replying to this mess of a post, I have to say, you really outdid yourself more than you ever have before Catchambers. I think the only time I was more amazed by you was the time you spammed threads filled with [@Mentions] of Mahz and got banned for it. You've managed to not only miss the point more often than I drink coffee in the day (I drink lots of coffee) but also have you managed to not understand most of what was written. I am amazed. You will find my comments inside.



Reading catch's post was what tuned me into this, but I did in fact use the new guild join feature that was in the general chat. It made things rather easy. I saw the message, clicked into the thread and had a welcome put up split seconds after the user posted. It's entirely our issue to welcome people, and I try to throw at least some sort of welcome to people who haven't had a response when I feel like hopping over there, which is fairly frequently.

In other words, when it comes to welcoming, we're just a lazy old bunch of bastards it seems.


Yup. Whether or not it's really an issue that is worth fixing is another matter but an attempt was made, now it's up to the people to take it. They won't but that's out of the hands of anyone at that point.

Hidden 7 yrs ago 3 yrs ago Post by Polymorpheus
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Ruby
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Ruby No One Cares

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We're getting complaints about this thread becoming toxic when someone's disagreed with.

A goal of any of these threads seemed to be, "Let's not get it closed for being out of control."

Just a friendly warning it may be starting to shade in that direction.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by j8cob
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>start civil discussion
>people that disagree with the thread's premise come in and immediately start being hostile
>"Come on guys, keep it civil."

This is now three-for-three on this chain of events.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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>start civil discussion
>people that disagree with the thread's premise come in and immediately start being hostile
>"Come on guys, keep it civil."

I'm starting to see trends in these threads.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ArenaSnow
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Yes, the victim trend is becoming rather strong, isn't it.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by j8cob
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j8cob The Gr8est / The J8est

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Yes, the victim-shaming trend is becoming rather strong.

Am I doing this right?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Scarescrow
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I don't know, are we doing correctly to what the purpose of the page is? For all I see is a group of people mocking each other. Some say other are guilty, some defend themselves and made others look guilty. I subscribe this to see change but it seem that all I see is another " In Defense of Genre 2" Mk 3.
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